Defence 2022

[Revenant1965]

Bluemour thread has many things ATM, and hidden in it are some great insights on defence, including possible post-Jones...

I thought I would kick off a thread about defence for 2022, with discussion on who may or may not be in the side (but no poll - leave that for the thread that will begin after draft on best 22 in 22). Also a discussion on possible tactics. (Mods - feel free to delete if you think it's not appropriate).

JustaBattler had some great insights (see quote at end of this post). I also wondered what might happen post-Jones as I thought Liam might start getting a few injuries. However, I would rather have Jones (than possibly not) under new coaching regime. But it will be what it will be.

Assuming Jones is gone, and everyone is fit, I could see a back 6 of Weitering, Marchbank, Young, Docherty, Williams and Saad, with Stocker as 7th defender (Kemp also in side).

With regards to tactics, I really resonate with what JustaBattler said... But what do others think...

Jonesy is good at what he is good at and not so good at what he isn't - I don't think his absence would be anywhere near as significant as Weitering's - if anything it may accelerate the thinking of the new coaching group regarding how to go about playing a more team-based defensive system instead of the one on ones Teague preferred - picking up Young and (fingers crossed) a fit Marchbank and McDonald adds three defensive choices the Club didn't have access to in '21.

Boyd | Young | McDonald are three noobies the Club is running with: Weitering Saad Williams Plowman pick themselves. Stocker /Kemp/Newman provides some cover along with Williamson.

Less reliance on Jonesy's closing speed and leap might force some better teamwork - which is badly needed Carlton has been pretty easy to separate in defense - playing an extra is a pretty easy fix for that as and when required.

 

[CJMB]

Bluemour thread has many things ATM, and hidden in it are some great insights on defence, including possible post-Jones...

I thought I would kick off a thread about defence for 2022, with discussion on who may or may not be in the side (but no poll - leave that for the thread that will begin after draft on best 22 in 22). Also a discussion on possible tactics. (Mods - feel free to delete if you think it's not appropriate).

JustaBattler had some great insights (see quote at end of this post). I also wondered what might happen post-Jones as I thought Liam might start getting a few injuries. However, I would rather have Jones (than possibly not) under new coaching regime. But it will be what it will be.

Assuming Jones is gone, and everyone is fit, I could see a back 6 of Weitering, Marchbank, Young, Docherty, Williams and Saad, with Stocker as 7th defender (Kemp also in side).

With regards to tactics, I really resonate with what JustaBattler said... But what do others think...

It’s an interesting discussion. As you and Jab alluded to, hopefully we’ve got all the the above mentioned players available.

There’s also the curveball of Voss; what will his preferred structure (across the ground) be in regards to talls, smalls and rucks, plus the flow-on effect from midfield structure (inside/in-out/pure wing/etc). A more mobile midfield probably allows an extra taller type down back, etc.

In recent times we’ve had Weiters, Jones and Plowman more often than not as key-key-3rd/utility.

We could go the most like-for-like with Young or McDonald taking the 2nd key def role, or perhaps Voss will opt for having an extra 3rd tall type and try to have less 1v1s. That could see Weiters combining with a combination of a couple of Marchbank/Gov/Kemp/etc, maybe with Plow taking the med/small players, so something like key-3rd-3rd-3rd/utility.

I guess breaking it down we’ve got these taller types, roughly ranked in order of key/tall def capability (arguably):

Weitering
Young
McDonald
Marchbank
Kemp
McGovern
Plowman
Parks
Silvagni(?)
Williamson


F*** we’re relying on Weitering…

 

[Jeremias]

Jones is important and will be a big loss should he be unavailable, but Weitering is the far more important player. You can build an entire defense and an entire defensive structure around him.

It's far more critical we get our defensive structures up the ground sorted, which will have a direct flow on effect to our back 6. Get the midfield pressure and defensive play right and we'll be a far better outfit.

Let's not forget Voss is coming from a club who was the best defensively in 2020 and a top 3 defensive club in 2021. Who did they have as key defenders? This year Aliir, but alongside him Jonas and...Trent McKenzie

12

Trent Mckenzie

Age

32

Ht

191cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

305.7

4star

D

12.1

3star

K

10.6

4star

HB

1.6

1star

M

4.7

4star

T

1.1

2star

MG

290.6

4star

D

16.8

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.8

5star

.

We'll be fine.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

 

[athensblue]

Weit man better stay healthy or we have a bit of an issue

 

[Revenant1965]

Weit man better stay healthy or we have a bit of an issue

This 1000%. If Jones is gone, and if Weiterbot is unavailable for whatever reason, we'll be stretched thin. I'm just hoping (in a real sense) that with Voss and co that we will have much better defensive structure. But we'll have to pick up someone with a pre-season supplementary pick...

 

[Bletch]

This 1000%. If Jones is gone, and if Weiterbot is unavailable for whatever reason, we'll be stretched thin. I'm just hoping (in a real sense) that with Voss and co that we will have much better defensive structure. But we'll have to pick up someone with a pre-season supplementary pick...

Just need to look how awful we were when Jones was out for the last portion of this year. Compounded by injuries to McDonald and Marchbank for sure, but just showed our lack of tall defenders. Young coming in helps, but we've lost Casboult, who could be thrown back in a pinch, and now (likely) Jones.

 

[new_blue]

My glass half full perspective is that moving on from Jones may be a blessing in disguise…longer term.

Clearly we need a more team oriented defensive structure than what we rolled out last year and having a no-name defender may help prioritisation on that.

Having watched that vision of Aleer, I feel he’s the right type for us to be going for given we’ll likely be a defender down without Jones. This was a clear need, but may be accelerated as a result.

 

[thylacine60]

Weit man better stay healthy or we have a bit of an issue

that was always the case, azureaegean..........

 

[Coona Blues]

My glass half full perspective is that moving on from Jones may be a blessing in disguise…longer term.

Clearly we need a more team oriented defensive structure than what we rolled out last year and having a no-name defender may help prioritisation on that.

Having watched that vision of Aleer, I feel he’s the right type for us to be going for given we’ll likely be a defender down without Jones. This was a clear need, but may be accelerated as a result.

A little of this, Jonesy relies on his athleticism and closing speed. When he declines, will be rapid.

Vossy comes come a club with a highly effective defence despite (before Aliir) having a team of under sized defenders. This is as a result of genuine team defence, not so much a team within a team as we have been. Midfield defensive pressure is a centrepiece of Port’s defence, minimising the need for one-on-one defence against frequent and quality delivery.

Expecting some surprises in our set up. Thinking multiple medium talls may be the preference, which may create a conundrum with Saad and Williams being a but undersized. Thinking a Tigers Rance/Balta, Astbury, Grimes, Vlastuin, Broad, McIntosh plus Houli and/or Short is easier for our supporters to relate to.

Weiters is a pillar, but his lack of genuine leg speed somewhat dictates the dynamics around him. Needs to be complemented by pace, Jones is a great foil. This poster would love Williams to improve his tank to be able to play or at least rotate in a genuine wing role. Saad has the tools, but his psyche seems to dictate better value from behind the ball.

The likes of Aleer have decent highlight reels, but they do not show his efforts or game sense behind the play or his ability at ground level. Some feedback has him a one trick pony. Thinking that with Young and McDonald and third tall/ undersized keys like Marchbank and Kemp, we may be better waiting for a more rounded developing KPP in later drafts. Throw in Plow, Parks, McGovern and JSOS as possible pieces of the mix and we are not badly served if the injury gods treat us more kindly.

We have Docherty, Newman, Williamson and Stocker to add to the mix, as well as untapped Boyd and possibility of redeploying others such as Newnes, Cottrell, Philp, even Honey, Fogarty or Owies depending on the forward mix.

What we end up using as our go to defensive structure will be somewhat intriguing. I am expecting some definite tweaking if not a totally new structure and personnel deployed accordingly.

 

[BrownDog20]

Definitely not

 

[gbatman]

Young is a talented young player who is st that age where he's just out of the development stage. IMO he will slot straight into CHB. McDonald will be thereabouts. We are going to have to pick up a mature key defender from somewhere for further depth.

As for other issues, playing without a 3rd tall defender for years is an issue. Plowman has tried hard but he isn't a genuine 3rd tall defender, doesn't play tall enough. Marchbank was the last good one we have had. IMO we are desperate to get him back or to turn McGovern into one. Over the last 15 years premiership backlines have had a number of 193cm players in defence who can run who are not key defenders. So we must fix this.

 

[therubbernub]

Vossy comes come a club with a highly effective defence despite (before Aliir) having a team of under sized defenders. This is as a result of genuine team defence, not so much a team within a team as we have been. Midfield defensive pressure is a centrepiece of Port’s defence, minimising the need for one-on-one defence against frequent and quality delivery.

Yes and Aliir was all australian. Jones could be that under Voss as well. The big fella will be missed. Hopefully there is another way.

 

[bmaurizio]

Young is a talented young player who is st that age where he's just out of the development stage. IMO he will slot straight into CHB. McDonald will be thereabouts. We are going to have to pick up a mature key defender from somewhere for further depth.

As for other issues, playing without a 3rd tall defender for years is an issue. Plowman has tried hard but he isn't a genuine 3rd tall defender, doesn't play tall enough. Marchbank was the last good one we have had. IMO we are desperate to get him back or to turn McGovern into one. Over the last 15 years premiership backlines have had a number of 193cm players in defence who can run who are not key defenders. So we must fix this.

Agree, our defense will evolve & adapt without Liam ,don’t see a major problem, Jones will be missed, a fine defender when on, but should he insist on not being immunized , the sooner he's delisted the better.
Not good for our brand nor team morale for this matter to drag in the media.
Momentum will only increase, leading to December 6th date.
Certainly a sensitive issue, needs to be managed correctly, however CFC must act decisively.

 

[La Dispute]

Easy to understate Jones’ importance.

He has been one of our best over the past 5 years, statistically one of the best one-on-one defenders in the league and a surprisingly good long kick out of defense.

He was susceptible to the odd howler, but he’s going to be missed in our defensive structure. Improved as a player every year and is still generally underrated as a key defender partly because he’s a little unorthodox in his approach. Plays exactly as you’d imagine a former leading forward could if purposed as a defender and outwardly resembled Nick Riewoldt at times - just flying for stray opposition kicks.

That being said he is, if I’m not mistaken, the oldest player on list and irrespective of this recent episode there was always going to be a need to replace him long term. I’ve said it in another thread but the player with the most similar attributes on our list is Oscar McDonald

21

Oscar Mcdonald

Age

28

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

191.4

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

3star

MG

157.7

3star

D

14.8

4star

K

5.4

2star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.4

3star

MG

138.4

3star

, and he had some level of success playing as a defender at Melbourne.

Can imagine some teething issues as we work out our best set of defenders and re-structure our (usually non-existent) zone, but long term we have recruited Young and Kemp (IMO) will surprise as an intercepting defender.

Was on the cards anyway, but if Jones isn’t getting back we are going to swing pretty hard to correct our defensive issues.

 

[Ash24]

Keeping my fingers and toes crossed that Jones changes his mind, but I'm far from confident.

I'm also not sure the best way to look for his replacement - we currently have ZERO young key defenders on our list. We genuinely have no one who has been developing in the system for a few years. No BSOS, no Macreadie, no Goddard, the list goes on.

We can't use our 2022 1st in next year's trade period (due to the first-round pick rule) and I doubt next year there are many A grade potential KPDs who are OOC and can slide to the second round for a trade. I also don't want to rely on a OMac/Young for the next 3-4 years until Leek Alleer or another 18 year old draftee fully develops.

So what's the best way to go about it? Second round pick in this year's draft? First round pick in next year's draft? Someone through the trade period next year? A combination of two?


Anyway, in terms of the back 7 for next year...


FB: Stocker, McDonald, Plowman

HB: Saad, Weitering, Newman

* Williams wing/on ball, rotating with Stocker *

I/C: Marchbank/Gov/Young/Kemp (could potentially also be part of that backline-midfield rotation)

 

[Arr0w]

Still 1 genuine spine player short

 

[BigBreakfast]

Still 1 genuine spine player short

At least one…

 

[Justnetime]

Stocker becomes more of a lock With Jones out. When ball hits the ground Newman, Saad, and Williams first instinct is to look for a receive. This was Carlton the season before with people looking at Jones to do the dirty ground hard ball get. It was a little bit of a witches hat defence line up there for a bit With lots of receivers. Jones and Stocker all of a sudden gave us a much much better balance of hardness at the ball And allow Docherty, Newman, Saad and Williams to release with confidence.

Even Weitering would prefer to use his kicking release skills. Plowman is terrible on ground ball gets if he is in front Position. He is a pass if behind opponent trying to restrict.

If Jones misses I don’t think Young will do the kamikaze attack on the ball. So Jones to me is a big loss.

Jones brain fades we’re going to be solved by a two way running midfield that wouldn’t allow training drill passes making him look more than stupid.

 

[Wickzki]

That being said he is, if I’m not mistaken, the oldest player on list

Ed Curnow. But he and Liam are the only two in the 30+ bracket with Newman and Newnes third and fourth oldest at 28y9m and 28y8m right now.

We are very young compared to most.

 

[Ash24]

Still 1 genuine spine player short

Dom Akuei

 

[Revenant1965]

Dom Akuei

View attachment 1279669

That's a great photo

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Dom Akuei

View attachment 1279669

terrific picture!

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

How tall's this kid?

 

[Ash24]

How tall's this kid?

This one says 192cm, but he's definitely taller.

Dominic Akuei

central.rookieme.com