Opinion Comparing the 1997 Squad to the 2012 Squad

[Pilchard_Adams]

Firstly let me just say that this post has nothing to do with winning the 2012 premiership. Personally I do not think Adelaide are a chance until we can actually beat Hawthorn, Collingwood, West Coast and StKilda in the regular season. Hawthorn are/were the favourites, West Coast and Collingwood have been our bogey sides for a while, and StKilda, while not that great this season, have beaten us in finals too. These teams have been the toughest for Adelaide to beat over the last 7 or so years, sucks they are all up and running at the same time as Adelaide....

But that does not mean we cannot debate and compare the players from these 2 eras. The two eras are 15 years apart, a complete turnover of the list has occurred and I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought. Plus its something to do over the boring bye round...

Just remember, you are comparing players as they were/are in 1997 and 2012. Edwards of 1997 was not Edwards of 2008 for example. Im not looking at potential. Im not looking at the 1997 GF team either, just my best 25 from 1997 and 2012

FB: Jameson vs Rutten: Very tough. I think Jameson would be more suited to todays FF's, and Rutten to the ones going around in 1997. Rutten by a nose

BP: Hart vs Doughty: Pretty obvious, Hart wins. Dogga has been pretty consistant but Hart was a gun.

BP: Smart vs Johncock: Id go Johncock in this. Smart was an awesome player but Johncock is probably our best small defender ever.

CHB: Caven vs Talia: Caven was one of my favourites and wins this battle. Talia just learning his craft.

HBF: McLeod vs Jaensch: McLeod.

HBF: Goodwin vs Reilly: Painful. Feels wrong. But Goodwin was in his first year and providing less than 10 touches a game. Reilly wins

LW: Connell vs MacKay: I was a Connell fan growing up, but MacKay seems to have more class and skill. Id go MacKay.

RW: Koster vs Sloane: Sloane all the way.

C: Bickley vs Van Berlo: Both players were/are at a similar position in their careers in 1997 and 2012. Bickley was a great hard man, never really racked up high possessions, and led the club well. VB is also a hard man, is leading the club well but for me, the deciding factor is VB is providing more on the field than Bickley did.

Ruck: Rehn vs Jacobs: Jacobs is coming along very nicely and is being touted as the next Rehn by some, but Rehn for me.

Foll: Johnson vs Thompson: Thompson by several biceps.

Foll: Ricciuto vs Danger: Roo for me. If I could choose a draw this would be it. But I cant select Danger on the basis of 7 or so brilliant games, when Roo was pulling these out from debut.

HFF: Bond vs Petrenko: My memories of the 1997 GF of Bond make him one of my all time favourite crows. But during 1997 his stats are very similar to Pets, but Pets off the ball work gets him over the line.

HFF: Liptak vs Wright: Liptak would have been great but injuries means he was rarely on the field. Wright wins

CHF: Robran vs Tippett: Robran wasnt really a goal kicking CHF, Tippett is.

FP: Jarman vs Callinan: Jarman

FP: Vardy vs Porplysia: Tough one. Porps current output lets him down. Cant live on 2009 forever. Vardy wins

FF: Modra vs Walker: IMO very comparable players. Modra had the runs on the board though

Int1: Edwards vs Smith: Smith in this battle. Edwards didnt hit his straps until about 2000.

Int2: James vs Shaw: James was a lightning quick handball from the bottom of the pack. Shaw is too young and imo has suspect body.

Int3: Pittman vs Jenkins: Jenkins is too inexperienced to pick. Pittman wins

Int4/SUB:Ellen vs Douglas: Ellen was a very versatile player, id have him over Douglas every day.

Emergency1: Sampson vs Otten: Sampson please. Pretty even, Otten if i was doing this prior to his injury. Infact Otten would be on the field.

Emergency2: Rintoul vs Knights: Knights, I still think he can make a comback

Emergency3: Stanfield vs Lynch: Big Bad Bazza, why did you show the ball to that player as you ran into an open goal



THE REST
Tregenza vs Tambling: Trigger with his knee injury over Tambling at the moment

McCartney vs McKernan: feel Smack is softer than butter in the sun.

Orman-Allen vs Lyons: Lyons thanks

List came out 11 players from 1997 and 11 players from 2012 in the starting 22

 

[Southerntakeover]

I think I stopped reading after Johncock over Smart.

 

[JP Sauce]

No.

Just no.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Ok mods delete the thread plz. Seems what the guys and I were talking about doesnt apply here.

 

[JP Sauce]

It's just hard to compare players from different eras.

That and there is no way you can have Stiffy over Smart. Especially 2012 Stiffy over 1997 Smart!

 

[woopedazz]

Impossible to compare, but you took a shot at it.

 

[BACCS]

I think I stopped reading after Johncock over Smart.

The rest are fine. Obviously that is the only part of the post you read, as otherwise it was a decent attempt.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'd go Smart over Johncock.

Also would take Goodwin over Reilly. I know Goodwin was in his first season but he was quality right from the beginning and showed immense composure under pressure. He drilled a clutch goal from a tight angle in Q4 of the Bulldogs preliminary final in 1997. Also won the key late contest on the wing in that game, laced Kane Johnson with the pass that finished with Darren Jarman's winning goal. This under pressure quality football is something Reilly can only dream of. Hopefully Reilly will get a chance to prove himself this year but up until now hasn't.

Would take Connell over Mackay I looove Mackay but he has been down for quite a while now. And Connell was much maligned I know but consistently found the footy in big games and his finishing during the 97 and 98 finals series was among the best football he ever played for the Crows. Mackay is "potentially" a much better player but we haven't seen it often enough.

Bickley and van Berlo a tie. I know Bicks won a B&F (or two?) but VB is well on his way as a player.

Otherwise reckon I agree with most of them

 

[Coopers]

Half the problem is you are comparing players that play different positions.

Callinan v Jars?
Hart v Dogga?
Smart v Stiffy?

 

[summers12]

My Team
Full Forwards
Walker, Modra, Jarman

Half Forwads
Goodwin, Tippett, Edwards

Centre
Sloan, Riccuito, Johnson

Half Backs
Hart, Caven, McLeod

Full Back
Smart, Rutten, Johncock

Rucks
Jacob's, Thompson, Dangerfield

Interchange
Rehn, James, Bickley, Van Berlo

 

[JP Sauce]

Rehn >>> Jacobs.

Pretty cool looking team.

 

[summers12]

Only reason I picked Jacobs is because I beleive he is far more suited to the modern era as Rehn was what you would call the old lumbering style ruckmen and I think he wouldnt be as dominating in todays game.

 

[Paladin]

Only reason I picked Jacobs is because I beleive he is far more suited to the modern era as Rehn was what you would call the old lumbering style ruckmen and I think he wouldnt be as dominating in todays game.

Rehn would easily be the best ruckman going around if he was playing now.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Rehn >>> Jacobs.

Pretty cool looking team.

+ 1

Reckon Jacobs will become as good as Rehn on a long-term basis, but still very early days to rate him ahead of an AA, dual premiership ruckman.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I know Bicks won a B&F (or two?)

Nah man.

 

[Southerntakeover]

The rest are fine. Obviously that is the only part of the post you read, as otherwise it was a decent attempt.

Actually theres a few other questionable ones, but im not inclined to discuss them all, so it was easier to point out one of the more glaring.

Nigel Smart is so ridiculously underrated, even amongst Crows fans. He was an absolute gun for us for a decade plus. We're talking about a guy who had the versatility to play at either end of the ground as a key position player at a ridiculously high level. Three time all Australian. He should come up in the 'greatest ever crow' discussion.

BTW, I dont really understand why we'd be stuck with these match ups. I mean... why would we need to put Roo against Danger, when we could easily slide Danger in over a lesser light etc?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Rehn would easily be the best ruckman going around if he was playing now.

No bounce pads now either. Unstoppable

 

[Slippery Pete]

I stopped reading at Reilly beats Goodwin.

Reilly doesn't beat Goodwin anywhere, at any age, at any time.

Did the OP even watch any of the 97 finals series?

 

[Slippery Pete]

I think I stopped reading after Johncock over Smart.

Yeah that too.

I did go down to the end to see if there was anything worse than that. I got down to Smith beats Edwards, and the next sound in the Slippery Pete household was me hitting the floor.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

I stopped reading at Reilly beats Goodwin.

Reilly doesn't beat Goodwin anywhere, at any age, at any time.

Did the OP even watch any of the 97 finals series?

The post probably wasnt explained too well. Im happy to accept I created a shit thread.

It was about where players played most for Adelaide in the 1997 season and 2012 season. My friends and I were talking about which team was better, the team that won a Grand Final, or the team that has had its best start to a season. So players were compared to what I thought were their most played position in the opposing seasons. This would always be up for discussion and theres no right or wrong opinion. Anyone can go and take the best of the best from each season and make a super team. That wasnt the idea of the thread.

As for Reilly over Goodwin, im a Reilly basher. But I would take Reillys 2012 over Goodwins sub 10 possessions per game season in 1997. Everyone knows Goodwin > Reilly in the bigger picture.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Yeah that too.

I did go down to the end to see if there was anything worse than that. I got down to Smith beats Edwards, and the next sound in the Slippery Pete household was me hitting the floor.

Again you have completely missed the point. Everyone knows Edwards >Smith. But I think todays Smith was providing more than Edwards of 1997

 

[Slippery Pete]

Nah, he isn't.

On the other one - Goodwin was pivotal in the 1997 finals series. Watch it again - especially the last quarter of the 1997 prelim, and tell me if Reilly would be capable of what Goodwin did.

Class moments wins finals. Forget about possessions.

 

[moogerfooger]

Again you have completely missed the point. Everyone knows Edwards >Smith. But I think todays Smith was providing more than Edwards of 1997

Agreed. I think its hard for people to remember that in '97 Edwards was just a good little back pocket player essentially fighting for the same spot as Trent Ormond-Allen. Edwards was dropped for Round 22 and the Semi Final, when Ormond-Allen played in defense instead. Ormond-Allen then got glandular fever and Edwards took his spot. So Blighty rated him about the same as Ormond-Allen, if not a little behind him, in late 1997. Now ask yourself, who would you choose out of Brodie Smith and Trent Ormond-Allen? Its a bit easier when one of them isn't a premiership player.

 

[Allefgib]

Agreed. I think its hard for people to remember that in '97 Edwards was just a good little back pocket player essentially fighting for the same spot as Trent Ormond-Allen. Edwards was dropped for Round 22 and the Semi Final, when Ormond-Allen played in defense instead. Ormond-Allen then got glandular fever and Edwards took his spot. So Blighty rated him about the same as Ormond-Allen, if not a little behind him, in late 1997. Now ask yourself, who would you choose out of Brodie Smith and Trent Ormond-Allen? Its a bit easier when one of them isn't a premiership player.

Depends if we have a back up ruck or not.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Many of our 1997/98 players went from being virtual unknowns to long-term stars of AFC (Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod, etc). What was important is they stood up when it mattered to take the opportunity.

The current side arguably has more talent, but can they take the great opportunity they have. ie. We will find out later this year whether they can step it up to the next level