Team Mgmt. An early crack at 2017 best 22

[WEEVZ]

Not play Hocking against the Hawks?
You've got to be joking, especially without Myers.

The likes of Heppell, Zerrett, Goddard and Parish benefit so much from having Buddha around.
Not only does he protect them but he also takes the pounding at the bottom of the packs that We don't want them copping. And he loves it!

Who does he replace?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Who does he replace?

One of the younger guys on the flanks or in the pockets. He'd be named on the bench but probably start on the field. Hocking brings a bit of campaigner to the game that the others just don't have yet.

 

[WEEVZ]

One of the younger guys on the flanks or in the pockets. He'd be named on the bench but probably start on the field. Hocking brings a bit of campaigner to the game that the others just don't have yet.

Honestly can't see who he replaces:
Gleeson - no.
Colyer - unlikely.
Parish - no.
Laverde - after his performance in the JLT so far he's earned his spot.
Walla - no.
Fantasia - no.
Zaharakis - no.
Langford - no.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Honestly can't see who he replaces:
Gleeson - no.
Colyer - unlikely.
Parish - no.
Laverde - after his performance in the JLT so far he's earned his spot.
Walla - no.
Fantasia - no.
Zaharakis - no.
Langford - no.

Exactly. With Watson, Heppell, and Zach Merrett there now as the starting inside mids (centre, ruck rover, and rover), and with Parish, Laverde, and Langford in the forward line or on the bench to replace them when they rest, there's no room for a specialist enforcer in the team. They're just going to have to stick up for themselves.

 

[WEEVZ]

Exactly. With Watson, Heppell, and Zach Merrett there now as the starting inside mids (centre, ruck rover, and rover), and with Parish, Laverde, and Langford in the forward line or on the bench to replace them when they rest, there's no room for a specialist enforcer in the team. They're just going to have to stick up for themselves.

Yup not to mention the fact that Woosha has said repeatedly that he wants team defense, which as you say means there's no room for a specialist enforcer/tagger in our team. That's not to say Hocking won't play at all though, because I'm sure he will play a few games during the season but personally I don't see him being best 22, he's more a fringe player now (i.e. in that best 18-30 range along with Francis, McGrath, Begley, Stanton, Kelly, Bellchambers, Green, J.Merrett, Myers, McKenna, Dea, Redman and Brown).

 

[BrunoV]

I'd say that Hocking would have to demonstrate some improved form in JLT 3 before being given a spot.

He was rusty, and fair enough, but he's not good enough to get a game on past exploits.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Honestly can't see who he replaces:
Gleeson - no.
Colyer - unlikely.
Parish - no.
Laverde - after his performance in the JLT so far he's earned his spot.
Walla - no.
Fantasia - no.
Zaharakis - no.
Langford - no.

He's going to have to replace one of them because your best 22 as it stands has only two genuine inside players, and that's Watson and Heppell. Zerrett is a solid guy but he's not the biggest bloke and Parish is a second year player. Zaharakis has never been a clearance machine and Colyer is averse to inside ball. That means we're probably going to get belted around the stoppages when one of Watson or Heppell is on the bench.

Myers is even better, he'd definitely be best 22, not fringe.

 

[WEEVZ]

He's going to have to replace one of them because your best 22 as it stands has only two genuine inside players, and that's Watson and Heppell. Zerrett is a solid guy but he's not the biggest bloke and Parish is a second year player. Zaharakis has never been a clearance machine and Colyer is averse to inside ball. That means we're probably going to get belted around the stoppages when one of Watson or Heppell is on the bench.

Myers is even better, he'd definitely be best 22, not fringe.

Z.Merrett doesn't need to be as tall as Watson or Heppell to be effective on the inside, it sure as hell didn't hold him back last year. And guys like Lachie Neale, Gary Ablett, Sam Mitchell, Robbie Gray, Dan Hannebery, Jack Steven, Joel Selwood, Nathan Jones, Dylan Shiel, Jack Viney and Adam Treloar, etc. all seem to have gone ok in their respective careers (all of whom seem to have comparatively similar height to weight ratio's so saying "he's not the biggest bloke" is a daft argument).

Have you heard of midfield rotations? We also have Langford, Goddard, Stanton, Kelly, Laverde, etc. who can rotate through and act as that bigger body inside that you seemed to be concerned we lack.

Also given Hocking isn't in the JLT 3 side it's a pretty good indicator that he's not in contention for a Round 1 berth.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Z.Merrett doesn't need to be as tall as Watson or Heppell to be effective on the inside, it sure as hell didn't hold him back last year. And guys like Lachie Neale, Gary Ablett, Sam Mitchell, Robbie Gray, Dan Hannebery, Jack Steven, Joel Selwood, Nathan Jones, Dylan Shiel and Adam Treloar, etc. all seem to have gone ok in their respective careers (all of whom seem to have comparatively similar height to weight ratio's so saying "he's not the biggest bloke" is a daft argument).

What metric is "ok"? This goes more than stats and the reference to his height and weight simply pointing out that it's easier for the other to keep him out of the contest. He's not like a Cripps or a Fyfe who can barrell his way through the guy he's playing on to collect the ball. And none of those guys you listed play in a vacuum because they all have a solid midfield around them. Merrett is no different.

How would Lachie Neale go if it wasn't for guys like Mundy and Barlow?

Have you heard of midfield rotations? We also have Langford, Goddard, Stanton, Kelly, Laverde, etc. who can rotate through and act as that bigger body inside that you seemed to be concerned we lack.

Which one of those guys is the inside midfielder? What's the point of rotating a winger, a utility, a half back and a couple of half forwards through the contest when we can just play Hocking and be done with the issue? He's not a liability you know, he's actually a very good player. You need on-ballers in your team.

Also given Hocking isn't in the JLT 3 side it's a pretty good indicator that he's not in contention for a Round 1 berth.

Not at all.

 

[WEEVZ]

What metric is "ok"? This goes more than stats and the reference to his height and weight simply pointing out that it's easier for the other to keep him out of the contest. He's not like a Cripps or a Fyfe who can barrell his way through the guy he's playing on to collect the ball. And none of those guys you listed play in a vacuum because they all have a solid midfield around them. Merrett is no different.

How would Lachie Neale go if it wasn't for guys like Mundy and Barlow?


Which one of those guys is the inside midfielder? What's the point of rotating a winger, a utility, a half back and a couple of half forwards through the contest when we can just play Hocking and be done with the issue? He's not a liability you know, he's actually a very good player. You need on-ballers in your team.


Not at all.

You're acting like Merrett would be the only guy in the midfield if Watson and Heppell weren't there which I maintain is a nonsense argument. Ablett hasn't had a solid midfield around him since he left Geelong, has had to do the vast majority on the grunt work at Gold Coast himself.

I never said Hocking was a liability, merely that he lacks the strings to his bow that others have. I also never said that Hocking won't play during the year, merely that I personally do not see him being in the best 22 from the outset.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

You're acting like Merrett would be the only guy in the midfield if Watson and Heppell weren't there which I maintain is a nonsense argument.

If Watson and Heppell aren't there we end up right back in the same situation where we were last year, no?

Ablett hasn't had a solid midfield around him since he left Geelong, has had to do the vast majority on the grunt work at Gold Coast himself.

Totally false, Ablett has always had other inside midfielders around him, as well as the kids. Rischitelli, Campbell Brown, Karmichael Hunt etc.

I never said Hocking was a liability, merely that he lacks the strings to his bow that others have. I also never said that Hocking won't play during the year, merely that I personally do not see him being in the best 22 from the outset.

If Hocking doesn't line up Rd. 1, Ben Howlett will. There's no way we'll take such a light midfield into this season.

 

[WEEVZ]

If Watson and Heppell aren't there we end up right back in the same situation where we were last year, no?


Totally false, Ablett has always had other inside midfielders around him, as well as the kids. Rischitelli, Campbell Brown, Karmichael Hunt etc.


If Hocking doesn't line up Rd. 1, Ben Howlett will. There's no way we'll take such a light midfield into this season.

No, because we actually have depth for rotations. Last year what we had was basically it.

Rischitelli is average at best, Campbell Brown was a defender not a mid and Karmichael Hunt was garbage please don't act like he was anything special.

Howlett won't, his performances through the season have been garbage. If you want someone that's been a liability for us through the preseason look no further than Howlett (and McKernan).

 

[eth-dog]

No, because we actually have depth for rotations. Last year what we had was basically it.

Rischitelli is average at best, Campbell Brown was a defender not a mid and Karmichael Hunt was garbage please don't act like he was anything special.

Howlett won't, his performances through the season have been garbage. If you want someone that's been a liability for us through the preseason look no further than Howlett (and McKernan).

Underrating Rischitelli there. Was a good midfielder for a long time.

 

[hurlygurdy]

I'd say that Hocking would have to demonstrate some improved form in JLT 3 before being given a spot.

He was rusty, and fair enough, but he's not good enough to get a game on past exploits.

Actually he did some really nice things along with a few rusty moments. He had 16 touches, does anyone know how many minutes he played? I'd say he probably sat out a quarter or so which means he had a pretty decent day. Especially considering racking up touches is not what he is there for.
Honestly, i don't want to be rude, but if anyone doesn't have him in their team round one, they should be a little embarrassed when they see team selection that week. Having one of him or Myers in the side is a total no-brainer. Having two of them in the side is totally up for debate.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

No, because we actually have depth for rotations. Last year what we had was basically it.

Who, beyond Myers who is injured and Hocking and Howlett who are clearly average, do we have for rotations that we didn't have last year in the midfield?

Rischitelli is average at best, Campbell Brown was a defender not a mid and Karmichael Hunt was garbage please don't act like he was anything special.

Howlett won't, his performances through the season have been garbage. If you want someone that's been a liability for us through the preseason look no further than Howlett (and McKernan).

Holy crap, you just don't get it. You don't need to be special. You don't need to set the world on fire. You don't need to have a highlight reel as long as your arm. You just need to do the important job of seeing the ball get shovelled out from the stoppage to an outside player, lay a few tackles when the ball looks like it might be going the other way and be a bit of a link in the chain when the ball is going up and down the ground. Even premiership sides have players who seem outwardly mediocre, yet they're an important cog in the team. It's a boring role, but it's an essential role.

But alas, you're not the only one who thinks like that. Even two time premiership medallist Brad Sewell is criminally underrated for what he did at Hawthorn.

 

[Killer79]

Hockings ability to block at the stoppage is very important. Unfortunately he gets burnt for pace coming out. It will be interesting to see what the coaches decide. Does his ability to block other mids out of the contest and free up Heppell, Watson, Zerrett make up for the fact he cant catch anyone who gets a metre on him? Time will tell.

 

[WEEVZ]

Underrating Rischitelli there. Was a good midfielder for a long time.

Not saying he's not a decent player just not as good as people think, other than his 2015 since his last year at Brisbane (2010) and his first at Gold Coast (2011) he hasn't really done anything special.

Who, beyond Myers who is injured and Hocking and Howlett who are clearly average, do we have for rotations that we didn't have last year in the midfield?


Holy crap, you just don't get it. You don't need to be special. You don't need to set the world on fire. You don't need to have a highlight reel as long as your arm. You just need to do the important job of seeing the ball get shovelled out from the stoppage to an outside player, lay a few tackles when the ball looks like it might be going the other way and be a bit of a link in the chain when the ball is going up and down the ground. Even premiership sides have players who seem outwardly mediocre, yet they're an important cog in the team. It's a boring role, but it's an essential role.

But alas, you're not the only one who thinks like that. Even two time premiership medallist Brad Sewell is criminally underrated for what he did at Hawthorn.

I can see there's no swaying your mind lol.

Please point out where I said players need to be "special" to play in the midfield? I accept the need for solid role players (again you're picking and choosing bits of what I'm saying instead of reading it objectively and within context), Hocking will get games this year of that I have no doubt what I'm trying to get across is that I don't believe that he is best 22. In today's game there's little need for a tagger/specialist stopper in teams. I'm not ignoring defensive pressure in the midfield I'm saying that isn't it better to have the entire midfield and team doing it than relying on the one guy? Going back to Merrett, did you know he laid more tackles last year than Hocking has in any of his previous seasons? So I say again who does Hocking have a chance of replacing in the best 22 I outlined?

You're seriously comparing Hocking to Sewell? I suppose they're similar types in the end (i.e. hard nosed, defensive mids), but Sewell was a star Hocking has never gotten close to being that good.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I can see there's no swaying your mind lol.

To be honest, I'm open to somebody other than Hocking doing this job in the midfield, but somebody has to do it.

Please point out where I said players need to be "special" to play in the midfield?

Didn't you, in your own words, object to me mentioning Karmichael Hunt supporting Ablett in the midfield by stating that he was nothing special?

I accept the need for solid role players (again you're picking and choosing bits of what I'm saying instead of reading it objectively and within context), Hocking will get games this year of that I have no doubt what I'm trying to get across is that I don't believe that he is best 22.

I believe he's best 22 purely because he can do a job which very few others on our list can do. Maybe that makes him best 22 by default and not on merit, but he's an important player none the less.

In today's game there's little need for a tagger/specialist stopper in teams.

Before "today's game" we didn't even know what taggers were. They've only been big in today's game.

I'm not ignoring defensive pressure in the midfield I'm saying that isn't it better to have the entire midfield and team doing it than relying on the one guy?

What I'm saying is, isn't better to actually have players who can do those things rather than relying on players who can't? Sorry, but Stants, Zaka and Colyer have never had an inside game or an opposite running game. Laverde and Langford may one day be on-ballers but right now they're too green. Kelly and Goddard are getting long in the tooth. If you want team defence, you need to play players who can contribute to that.

Going back to Merrett, did you know he laid more tackles last year than Hocking has in any of his previous seasons? So I say again who does Hocking have a chance of replacing in the best 22 I outlined?

Langford, Laverde, Stewart, one of Colyer or Tippa... Not because they're bad players, but because they're extras.

You're seriously comparing Hocking to Sewell? I suppose they're similar types in the end (i.e. hard nosed, defensive mids), but Sewell was a star Hocking has never gotten close to being that good.

Dude...

 

[GUMBLETRON]

If I understand the disagreement right, I have to agree with _Swoon here. It's no coincidence that the midfield was murdered in 2015 when both Myers and Hocking were out. Yes, looming saga, but compare the way the defence held up to the way the midfield collapsed. There's absolutely a role (indeed a necessity) for defensively-minded, team-oriented midfielders in the modern game, not necessarily to tag but to do the blocking work other mids rely on. As BrunoV has articulated better than I can here, the likes of Merrett, Parish and Fantasia are far better at the two-way game than the senior midfielders, but they're also small by modern midfield standards which limits their capacity to do what a Myers or Hocking does. Now, given the limitations of those guys you probably don't want more than one of them alongside the relatively-slow senior core, but you also don't want less than one. Maybe (hopefully) we'll see one of the bigger youngsters demonstrate an affinity for that sort of game this year, but that hasn't happened yet.

 

[WEEVZ]

To be honest, I'm open to somebody other than Hocking doing this job in the midfield, but somebody has to do it.


Didn't you, in your own words, object to me mentioning Karmichael Hunt supporting Ablett in the midfield by stating that he was nothing special?


I believe he's best 22 purely because he can do a job which very few others on our list can do. Maybe that makes him best 22 by default and not on merit, but he's an important player none the less.


Before "today's game" we didn't even know what taggers were. They've only been big in today's game.


What I'm saying is, isn't better to actually have players who can do those things rather than relying on players who can't? Sorry, but Stants, Zaka and Colyer have never had an inside game or an opposite running game. Laverde and Langford may one day be on-ballers but right now they're too green. Kelly and Goddard are getting long in the tooth. If you want team defence, you need to play players who can contribute to that.


Langford, Laverde, Stewart, one of Colyer or Tippa... Not because they're bad players, but because they're extras.


Dude...

If I understand the disagreement right, I have to agree with _Swoon here. It's no coincidence that the midfield was murdered in 2015 when both Myers and Hocking were out. Yes, looming saga, but compare the way the defence held up to the way the midfield collapsed. There's absolutely a role (indeed a necessity) for defensively-minded midfielders players in the modern game, not necessarily to tag but to do the blocking work other mids rely on. As BrunoV has articulated better than I can here, the likes of Merrett, Parish and Fantasia are far better at the two-way game than the senior midfielders, but they're also small by modern midfield standards which limits their capacity to do what a Myers or Hocking does. Now, given the limitations of those guys you probably don't want more than one of them alongside the relatively-slow senior core, but you also don't want less than one.

Lets agree to disagree lol.

 

[Skipper_]

Best 22 by the end of the year

B: Ambrose - Hartley - Gleeson
HB: McKenna - Hurley - McGrath
C: Parish - Langford - Zaharakis
HF: Laverde - Daniher - Fantasia
F: Green - Hooker - McDonald-Tipungwuti
R: Leuenberger - Heppell - Merrett
I/C: Watson - Begley - Francis - Goddard

 

[eth-dog]

Best 22 by the end of the year

B: Ambrose - Hartley - Gleeson
HB: McKenna - Hurley - McGrath
C: Parish - Langford - Zaharakis
HF: Laverde - Daniher - Fantasia
F: Green - Hooker - McDonald-Tipungwuti
R: Leuenberger - Heppell - Merrett
I/C: Watson - Begley - Francis - Goddard

It's a good side. I'd make three changes though:

Out: Green, Ambrose, Begley
In: Stewart, Bellchambers, Long

 

[Keystone agony]

Best 22 after today given they wouldve picked our best side barring injuries vs cats

B: Baguley - Hurley - Ambrose
HB: Kelly - M.Brown - Gleeson
C: Goddard - Watson - Colyer
HF: Fantasia - Hooker - Langford
FF: Tipungwuti - Daniher - Mckernan
R: Leunberger - Heppell - Z.Merrett
INT: Goddard, Parish, Stanton, Zaharakis

Emg: Laverde, Hartley, Stewart, Begley, Dea, Hocking, Howlett, J.Green, Mcgrath, Long, Mckenna

Stewart to come in for Leunberger if injured and Mckernan to ruck. Can probably get away with it against the hawks to a degree with Mcevoy and Vickery not the best rucks buut Mcevoy could still provide a domination. Mckernan has demanded selection regardless.

Laverde and Begley didnt do enough today i feel filling a hole for Hooker for now even though not the same players. Feel we're going tall with Worsfold and having confidence in Fanta/Walla pressure deep.

 

[Bombermania]

Based on the preseason my round rd 1 side

B: Dea - Hartley - Ambrose
HB: Kelly - Hurley - Gleeson
C: Langford - Watson - Colyer
HF: Fanty - Daniher - Goddard
FF: Walla - Hooker - Stewart
R: McKernan - Heppell - Z.Merrett
INT: Parish, Stanton, Zaharakis, McGarth

Emg: LaVarde, Green, Hocking, Howlett, Long, McKenna, Begley

Leuy (McKernan) & Myers (Glesson) missing due to injury (player in brackets is the player that I would drop)

There are many unknowns with this side.

 

[BrunoV]

Interesting that Lucas thinks that there are 5 returning players who are "locks". It's his opinion but you'd assume that he knows more than the average commentator being a player manager who is connected to the club.