AFL Player #37: Nic Martin

[TheGrizz]

Contract Status: Out of contract 2024
2024 My Boy Draft: Pick 1, Beerfish

 

[Ambrosia]

Ridley is safety personified. Takes high percentage options and executes, you will never see Ridley attempt some of the outrageous crap Martin has tried this year.

Redman probably falls somewhere between the two in terms of risk profile in his kicking.

The issue with Martin is that he’s absolutely shanking balls he shouldn’t because he’s trying to run in one direction and kick it in another direction while he’s not looking. If he starts taking high risk options but actually dropping the ball properly and running at the target he’ll be more than fine.

Agree I'm more referring to Martin's frenetic style rather than his ball use. He takes on oncoming tacklers in a way that Redman and Ridley can't/won't.

 

[Ants]

Ridley is safety personified. Takes high percentage options and executes, you will never see Ridley attempt some of the outrageous crap Martin has tried this year.

Redman probably falls somewhere between the two in terms of risk profile in his kicking.

The issue with Martin is that he’s absolutely shanking balls he shouldn’t because he’s trying to run in one direction and kick it in another direction while he’s not looking. If he starts taking high risk options but actually dropping the ball properly and running at the target he’ll be more than fine.

Ridley turned it over in a dangerous position with his first kick last weekend…

But agree Martin is shanking kicks. OOBF is never a % play

 

[TheFrenchCut]

Caldwell is our best this year, but last year Martin had the third highest retention rate across the whole comp from kicks inside 50. He simplifies his ball use in the forward half.

 

[cobra land]

Surprised this bloke doesn't get more heat in here, he has a few clangers in him per week and his defensive work in non existant.

That miss today was a momentum killer !!!

 

[The Prosecutor]

He's becoming an issue.

1:15 onwards in the below just highlights what we've been seeing all year.

 

[Laverdeee]

He hits plenty of great kicks too, kids played 50 games.. let him settle into a role. We have Bigger issues in midfield

 

[BrunoV]

Full marks for incorporating 'fake' into the analysis.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Even Kane is smart enough to notice that Martin should be playing on the wing.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Says the bloke with the "fake" good suit

 

[DapperDon]

You do have to wonder why Brad changed things that were working and working pretty good and moved one position and has halted 2 players from playing their best footy in Martin and Mason.

 

[BrunoV]

You do have to wonder why Brad changed things that were working and working pretty good and moved one position and has halted 2 players from playing their best footy in Martin and Mason.

Redman is definitely playing less of a counter attacking role but his highs this season have probably been even better (given the defensive and intercept quality). So I don't think we can say his form has declined (at least after a slow start).

But I don't see how you can blame any decline in Martin's game on the coach. Martin is hardly stuck in D50 without the freedom to roam and accumulate. His problem is his kicking which he needs to tidy up because he cant spray the ball >50% of the time he is trying to set play up. I don't see why he would be kicking the ball any better doing what he wants on a wing. Doing what he wants on a wing and doing what he wants at half back are basically the same thing.

I assume he's no longer playing wing because the numbers were crunched and the ability of our opponents to exploit his wing meant that we were essentially creating a Nic Martin for the opposition each week. His overall presence was not a significant net gain for the team because wing is structurally a defensive role guarding against switches in play (and then being a key part of the transition into attack).

 

[mcgrath_truther]

the reason why naicos played the d50 distrubtor/free man role so well is because 99% of the time his disposal is of such a high quality that he can get away with playing loose.

at this starge marto makes too many errors (and when he's free up the ground he's missing goals he'd have otherwise slotted over the past few years) which again, naicos would generally have kicked.

 

[DapperDon]

Redman is definitely playing less of a counter attacking role but his highs this season have probably been even better (given the defensive and intercept quality). So I don't think we can say his form has declined (at least after a slow start).

But I don't see how you can blame any decline in Martin's game on the coach. Martin is hardly stuck in D50 without the freedom to roam and accumulate. His problem is his kicking which he needs to tidy up because he cant spray the ball >50% of the time he is trying to set play up. I don't see why he would be kicking the ball any better doing what he wants on a wing. Doing what he wants on a wing and doing what he wants at half back are basically the same thing.

I assume he's no longer playing wing because the numbers were crunched and the ability of our opponents to exploit his wing meant that we were essentially creating a Nic Martin for the opposition each week. His overall presence was not a significant net gain for the team because wing is structurally a defensive role guarding against switches in play (and then being a key part of the transition into attack).

You are right that the issue is Martin to an extent, as he is trying to pull off high end dart kicks that I think is just above his skill level. He didn't have to think of this when on wing or hff as it's more natural to him. With McGrath, Redman and now even moreso with Ridley back he isn't needed down back. We have players who can hit targets so it would benefit the team overall if he was put back into his best position. Rather than playing Kelly there

 

[BrunoV]

You are right that the issue is Martin to an extent, as he is trying to pull off high end dart kicks that I think is just above his skill level. He didn't have to think of this when on wing or hff as it's more natural to him. With McGrath, Redman and now even moreso with Ridley back he isn't needed down back. We have players who can hit targets so it would benefit the team overall if he was put back into his best position. Rather than playing Kelly there

I would prefer him forward but it doesn't work because we're already playing Wright, Stringer, Jones and Langford with slow / defensively ineffective smalls in Guelfi and Gresham. There just isn't enough ground level bite forward to add a freewheeling Martin.

Honestly, Martin's almost surplus to requirements. I don't think we get much from him in the team. It's just the way in which the team balances out. If Langford never became a 50 goal a year third tall forward and Stringer wasn't Stringer it would be different. I think his 'surplusness' will become a more concrete reality as Reid, who is great by foot, and Lual / Roberts press claims for senior selection which I do not believe is far away. You can re-shuffle the half back line in many ways to get the ball into the hands of better kicks (i.e. Ridley, Redman and Reid) and much better defensive players than Martin into position (because Reid or Ridley will free the other and Lual, for example, frees Redman).

Martin's worth is not his individual statistics, it is his value as a part of the ground in which he operates. On weight of butchered kicks this season alone I think it is already pretty clear that he's not had a positive impact on the team - he can't be playing his role if he is not executing those kicks. What would each game look like if Redman or Ridley was nailing those sprayed kicks? Of course, when asked, the line from the club will be he is playing his role. But that can't be true. I won't be sold on the claim that his role can be performed in the absence of skill execution.

Could Martin be turned into something really valuable? I'm already open to it. I don't think it's a case of trying to sell a lemon. He would be twice as valuable to Fremantle, for example, which suffers for a lack of creativity and attacking ball movement that is his forte, but has a sound defence on each line that could cover for Martin in any given game in any given role.

 

[eth-dog]

I would prefer him forward but it doesn't work because we're already playing Wright, Stringer, Jones and Langford with slow / defensively ineffective smalls in Guelfi and Gresham. There just isn't enough ground level bite forward to add a freewheeling Martin.

Honestly, Martin's almost surplus to requirements. I don't think we get much from him in the team. It's just the way in which the team balances out. If Langford never became a 50 goal a year third tall forward and Stringer wasn't Stringer it would be different. I think his 'surplusness' will become a more concrete reality as Reid, who is great by foot, and Lual / Roberts press claims for senior selection which I do not believe is far away. You can re-shuffle the half back line in many ways to get the ball into the hands of better kicks (i.e. Ridley, Redman and Reid) and much better defensive players than Martin into position (because Reid or Ridley will free the other and Lual, for example, frees Redman).

Martin's worth is not his individual statistics, it is his value as a part of the ground in which he operates. On weight of butchered kicks this season alone I think it is already pretty clear that he's not had a positive impact on the team - he can't be playing his role if he is not executing those kicks. What would each game look like if Redman or Ridley was nailing those sprayed kicks? Of course, when asked, the line from the club will be he is playing his role. But that can't be true. I won't be sold on the claim that his role can be performed in the absence of skill execution.

Could Martin be turned into something really valuable? I'm already open to it. I don't think it's a case of trying to sell a lemon. He would be twice as valuable to Fremantle, for example, which suffers for a lack of creativity and attacking ball movement that is his forte, but has a sound defence on each line that could cover for Martin in any given game in any given role.

Lual I don't see in the team until next year at a minimum. He's still very raw.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I would prefer him forward but it doesn't work because we're already playing Wright, Stringer, Jones and Langford with slow / defensively ineffective smalls in Guelfi and Gresham. There just isn't enough ground level bite forward to add a freewheeling Martin.

Honestly, Martin's almost surplus to requirements. I don't think we get much from him in the team. It's just the way in which the team balances out. If Langford never became a 50 goal a year third tall forward and Stringer wasn't Stringer it would be different. I think his 'surplusness' will become a more concrete reality as Reid, who is great by foot, and Lual / Roberts press claims for senior selection which I do not believe is far away. You can re-shuffle the half back line in many ways to get the ball into the hands of better kicks (i.e. Ridley, Redman and Reid) and much better defensive players than Martin into position (because Reid or Ridley will free the other and Lual, for example, frees Redman).

Martin's worth is not his individual statistics, it is his value as a part of the ground in which he operates. On weight of butchered kicks this season alone I think it is already pretty clear that he's not had a positive impact on the team - he can't be playing his role if he is not executing those kicks. What would each game look like if Redman or Ridley was nailing those sprayed kicks? Of course, when asked, the line from the club will be he is playing his role. But that can't be true. I won't be sold on the claim that his role can be performed in the absence of skill execution.

Could Martin be turned into something really valuable? I'm already open to it. I don't think it's a case of trying to sell a lemon. He would be twice as valuable to Fremantle, for example, which suffers for a lack of creativity and attacking ball movement that is his forte, but has a sound defence on each line that could cover for Martin in any given game in any given role.

I wonder how he would work in the eagles set up.
Im a big fan so this all just silly hypotheticals but I was thinking a few weeks back when there was talk of us trying to pry Reid away from Eagles that the only way would could get him was a combo of picks and players. And the only players on list from WA are Marto and Guelfi. I doubt Guelfi would satisfy them but Martin might, is that something most fans would be happy with?

 

[TheGrizz]

He's becoming an issue.

1:15 onwards in the below just highlights what we've been seeing all year.

boncer34 old Vol-kane-o has been listening to Bombercast i see

 

[boncer34]

boncer34 old Vol-kane-o has been listening to Bombercast i see

ACKNOWLEDGE ME

 

[BrunoV]

I wonder how he would work in the eagles set up.
Im a big fan so this all just silly hypotheticals but I was thinking a few weeks back when there was talk of us trying to pry Reid away from Eagles that the only way would could get him was a combo of picks and players. And the only players on list from WA are Marto and Guelfi. I doubt Guelfi would satisfy them but Martin might, is that something most fans would be happy with?

I don't have a clear enough understanding of what West Coast is trying to do. Who are their good and bad balance players and how does it all fit together? It's probably early enough in their build that they can just take the talent and fit the system around it but I do not discount the possibility that they would not be prepared to include a non-structural piece of the puzzle for Reid. If they want a player it has to be a mid or a KPF, doesn't it? They're otherwise likely to want the ransom in picks.

I see Fremantle as a more obvious fit, of the WA clubs, because Young aside they really lack another playmaker - a role for which Henry was being set when he requested a trade - and would be immediately improved if they had one. I don't think they've replaced Shultz either and he was very good as part of the attacking transition. We get the attack more naturally from our midfielders and half forwards, we're generally at the opposite end of the spectrum to Fremantle.

 

[mcgrath_truther]

i think he provides a lot acting as a distributor out of d50 but it has to be someone like ridley doing that now as he's considerably more reliable by boot than martin. now that he's back, i think it'd be worthwhile to release him up the ground back on the wing.
historically speaking, his f50 entries had been one of his strongest suits (and still is reasonably good this season), with duursma gone for another 2~ weeks i think we need him to slot into the wing and get back to his form from last season

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I don't have a clear enough understanding of what West Coast is trying to do. Who are their good and bad balance players and how does it all fit together? It's probably early enough in their build that they can just take the talent and fit the system around it but I do not discount the possibility that they would not be prepared to include a non-structural piece of the puzzle for Reid. If they want a player it has to be a mid or a KPF, doesn't it? They're otherwise likely to want the ransom in picks.

I see Fremantle as a more obvious fit, of the WA clubs, because Young aside they really lack another playmaker - a role for which Henry was being set when he requested a trade - and would be immediately improved if they had one. I don't think they've replaced Shultz either and he was very good as part of the attacking transition. We get the attack more naturally from our midfielders and half forwards, we're generally at the opposite end of the spectrum to Fremantle.

Maybe its recency bias because they looked so good offensively on weekend, but I think Freo have a few more good playmakers/runnners now, they just dont utilise them when they play their defensive game plan.

Young has been playing more inside mid this season too. Clark, Aish and Ryan are the guys they go to in the backline, sharp has been a great addition on the wing and then frederick/switowski add a bit of pace and class to forward flanks. Im actually a bit worried about our game against them even though its at Marvel. their pace has worried us the last few years.

 

[BrunoV]

Maybe its recency bias because they looked so good offensively on weekend, but I think Freo have a few more good playmakers/runnners now, they just dont utilise them when they play their defensive game plan.

Young has been playing more inside mid this season too. Clark, Aish and Ryan are the guys they go to in the backline, sharp has been a great addition on the wing and then frederick/switowski add a bit of pace and class to forward flanks. Im actually a bit worried about our game against them even though its at Marvel. their pace has worried us the last few years.

Fair enough, it could be down to system.