Review #36: Matthew McDonough

[_RT_]

id play players who i thought had potential...he dosnt in my opinion....and not play him ahead of players like Ellis Menadue lambert who have way more potenial because they can at least bring something at AFL level even if its small at the start...Mcdonut has brought totally nothing when he has played at Afl level and does not deserve anymore chances especially ahead of the above mentioned players who have all showed something at AFL level

Ever thought of becoming a talent scout for the club? You're ability to make assessments of a players worth from less than 10 games of AFL is truly amazing.

 

[_RT_]

Lennon and McDonough have seen enough at the top level to know what To expect . Furthermore they haven't improved week to week when given chances . Some players are guns at a standard and aren't able to step up to the better level .Tbh Lennon and McDonough have always appeared to be that type . They just don't think quick enough to have the same impact at AFL level . Lennon with a lot of work may be improved . Others play better as the standard improves and can't get a kick at that second lower level .

Wow, just wow. From just 8 & 9 games each, of which they have probably only played 50% of game time, you've been able to conclude that neither Lennon or McDonough have what it takes. Not only that but you also say they haven't improved from week to week when given chances. Once again a bit hard to show dramatic improvement when more often than not they are either being subbed into or subbed out of games. Last year when McDonough had a run of 6 games in 7 weeks, which the team went 1-5 in, he averaged 11.8 disposals 2.6 marks 1.5 tackles & 2.8 R50s playing across HB, while often being subbed in or out of games. I'd say that shows that he performed at an acceptable level for a second year player in a side being beaten more times than not.

Those numbers aren't too dissimilar to what the likes of Vlastuin Grimes and Batchelor are putting forward this year playing in the back line difference being is that they aren't being subbed in or out of games like McDonough was. As I posted late last week Morris Newman & Gordon combined are producing those sorts of numbers this year, yet it appears they are fairly secure in the 22 at the moment, while the likes of McDonough and Lennon, who have performed better statistically and I'd suggest actual performance is better than those 3 at VFL level still wallow away in the VFL.

 

[Spluff]

Lennon and McDonough have seen enough at the top level to know what To expect . Furthermore they haven't improved week to week when given chances . Some players are guns at a standard and aren't able to step up to the better level .Tbh Lennon and McDonough have always appeared to be that type . They just don't think quick enough to have the same impact at AFL level . Lennon with a lot of work may be improved . Others play better as the standard improves and can't get a kick at that second lower level .

Neither have really been given consecutive chances to improve. The only real run of games McDonough has had has been off half back, which is clearly not his position and not where he has dominated the VFL from. Lennon hasn't played back to back full games at all, though I accept that he's still starting his career and hasn't dominated at the lower level like some others have. It's become a recurring theme with these sorts of players who aren't Dimma's favourites that they come in and then generally get made sub or get dropped even if they did an okay job. Most games that they've missed out (particularly McDonough, and Dea as well for that matter) they've been far from the worst and then generally been replaced by somebody who performs at least as poorly as they did but holds their spot.

 

[TheTigerArmy]

Ever thought of becoming a talent scout for the club? You're ability to make assessments of a players worth from less than 10 games of AFL is truly amazing.

I know im great arnt i...

 

[TigerImposter]

Looks like Dan Frawley is back on BF. Wow the short sighted rubbish I've just read
Writing players off under ten games. Insanity. Considering we e backed Newman in for about fifty too many and given Gordon and Morris bonuses. Not forgetting a DFA 13 straight games
How are we ever going to improve to be a genuine top four side rather than making up numbers in finals?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Wow, just wow. From just 8 & 9 games each, of which they have probably only played 50% of game time, you've been able to conclude that neither Lennon or McDonough have what it takes. Not only that but you also say they haven't improved from week to week when given chances. Once again a bit hard to show dramatic improvement when more often than not they are either being subbed into or subbed out of games. Last year when McDonough had a run of 6 games in 7 weeks, which the team went 1-5 in, he averaged 11.8 disposals 2.6 marks 1.5 tackles & 2.8 R50s playing across HB, while often being subbed in or out of games. I'd say that shows that he performed at an acceptable level for a second year player in a side being beaten more times than not.

Those numbers aren't too dissimilar to what the likes of Vlastuin Grimes and Batchelor are putting forward this year playing in the back line difference being is that they aren't being subbed in or out of games like McDonough was. As I posted late last week Morris Newman & Gordon combined are producing those sorts of numbers this year, yet it appears they are fairly secure in the 22 at the moment, while the likes of McDonough and Lennon, who have performed better statistically and I'd suggest actual performance is better than those 3 at VFL level still wallow away in the VFL.

That is the issue EAD McDonough and Lennon will most likely always play best at VFL level and will out perform many players whom they will not get close to when playing AFL. At no stage have I stated I have drawn my conclusion solely form their games within the AFL. The theory of players having to play 50 -100 games before someone forms a opinion is flawed. The better someone is at identifying talent the sooner they should identify if someone will make it, or has the tools to make it. By no means do I suggest I am elite or even close in this regard but I don't need 10 -15 games to from a opinion. If we don't have the best at identifying talent we need to get the best . Playing as the sub should assist them with the flaws in their game, in that they are playing when they have a fatigue advantage and the sting has gone out of games .
Both are a chance and shouldn't have the pen put straight through them YET, but for their development . They need to show they can stand up at big times in games and when the heats on

 

[_RT_]

That is the issue EAD McDonough and Lennon will most likely always play best at VFL level and will out perform many players whom they will not get close to when playing AFL. At no stage have I stated I have drawn my conclusion solely form their games within the AFL. The theory of players having to play 50 -100 games before someone forms a opinion is flawed. The better someone is at identifying talent the sooner they should identify if someone will make it, or has the tools to make it. By no means do I suggest I am elite or even close in this regard but I don't need 10 -15 games to from a opinion. If we don't have the best at identifying talent we need to get the best . Playing as the sub should assist them with the flaws in their game, in that they are playing when they have a fatigue advantage and the sting has gone out of games .
Both are a chance and shouldn't have the pen put straight through them YET, but for their development . They need to show they can stand up at big times in games and when the heats on

As mentioned most of McDonoughs games last year came in losses, in fact of the 7 games he played only 1 was a win. Bit hard as a second year player to star or have a major impact when that is happening. Even when winning subs don't always come in and have an impact. All I'm saying is that if a spot opens up, like it has now with Edwards going out then one of these 2 or both deserve a crack at it to see if they have developed from what they have shown previously.

Personally I think that if given the chance to play their natural roles i.e. half forward/midfielder they will prove that they belong but it seems that we're still interested in developing them in other roles. Lennon is learning to play HB and wing, while McDonough is learning inside midfielder a role which he has taken to very well mind you, while still showing that up forward he can be a dangerous goal kicking option.

 

[THE_GUN]

That is the issue EAD McDonough and Lennon will most likely always play best at VFL level and will out perform many players whom they will not get close to when playing AFL. At no stage have I stated I have drawn my conclusion solely form their games within the AFL. The theory of players having to play 50 -100 games before someone forms a opinion is flawed. The better someone is at identifying talent the sooner they should identify if someone will make it, or has the tools to make it. By no means do I suggest I am elite or even close in this regard but I don't need 10 -15 games to from a opinion. If we don't have the best at identifying talent we need to get the best . Playing as the sub should assist them with the flaws in their game, in that they are playing when they have a fatigue advantage and the sting has gone out of games .
Both are a chance and shouldn't have the pen put straight through them YET, but for their development . They need to show they can stand up at big times in games and when the heats on

Can i just as you an question with an honest answer, How many times have you watched Lennon & McDonough play at VFL Level ?

Could you please tell me what Chris Newman offer that either of these kids dont apart from "leadership" atm, Newman this year 8 games playing 90% game time averages
11.4 possesion
2 marks
1.5 tackles
0.5 goals

In the 9 games that McDonogh has played at AFL level playing as a sub he has averaged exact same statts playing 30% game time

 

[webbie]

I must be missing something with people saying lennon deserves ago ive seen talent in the games of vfl ive been too. But he lacks intensity just coast.around and stands still after he dishes of the ball. Mcdonough is worth a shot and at least has a crack.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Can i just as you an question with an honest answer, How many times have you watched Lennon & McDonough play at VFL Level ?

Could you please tell me what Chris Newman offer that either of these kids dont apart from "leadership" atm, Newman this year 8 games playing 90% game time averages
11.4 possesion
2 marks
1.5 tackles
0.5 goals

In the 9 games that McDonogh has played at AFL level playing as a sub he has averaged exact same statts playing 30% game time

Chris Newman has the ability to make the correct decision at the right time at key moments and when the heat is in . This is the key point everyone seems to miss when evualating players on state footy . Ability to make smart decisions when the heat is on , because when they make that step up , the heat is always on .
When Newman or any other regular starts turning the ball over at key points of the game or their opponent starts having a greater impact their time is up .
In regards to games watched of these particular players, I have seen enough to form an opinion , more than happy for you to bookmark my posts from time to time and trace my record if you like.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

As mentioned most of McDonoughs games last year came in losses, in fact of the 7 games he played only 1 was a win. Bit hard as a second year player to star or have a major impact when that is happening. Even when winning subs don't always come in and have an impact. All I'm saying is that if a spot opens up, like it has now with Edwards going out then one of these 2 or both deserve a crack at it to see if they have developed from what they have shown previously.

Personally I think that if given the chance to play their natural roles i.e. half forward/midfielder they will prove that they belong but it seems that we're still interested in developing them in other roles. Lennon is learning to play HB and wing, while McDonough is learning inside midfielder a role which he has taken to very well mind you, while still showing that up forward he can be a dangerous goal kicking option.

I accept what you are saying and would suggest they are a greater chance of being promoted due to Edwards injury but it wouldn't surprise me if the decision is to elevate whomever the club believes is the safest and best defensive minded player . The club has appeared , rightly IMO , to have taken a stronger stance on picking players who make less errors / turnovers and defensive errors . The game plan is now on reducing errors and preventing easy goals to the opposition , which ultimately sees the opposition take stupid risks which sees the ge open up offensively in our advantage often later in games . Gordan for this reason should come under done scrutiny .

 

[Bold Tiger]

Lennon and McDonough have seen enough at the top level to know what To expect . Furthermore they haven't improved week to week when given chances . Some players are guns at a standard and aren't able to step up to the better level .Tbh Lennon and McDonough have always appeared to be that type . They just don't think quick enough to have the same impact at AFL level . Lennon with a lot of work may be improved . Others play better as the standard improves and can't get a kick at that second lower level .

I'd have thought its pretty hard to step up when both have only played 1 game (and Lennon was subbed out) in 15 games this season, so not sure they've been given chances. McDonough should have played in many more games this season, however we'll probably see whether they can both stand up to AFL level when they are at different clubs next season to obtain more opportunity. It is clear our coaching staff do not have confidence in them to offer more than other players they've picked during the season (ie Morris, Newman, Llyod, Gordon). You could also include Matt Dea in this discussion as well, probably seeking more opportunities at AFL level elsewhere next season.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I'd have thought its pretty hard to step up when both have only played 1 game (and Lennon was subbed out) in 15 games this season, so not sure they've been given chances. McDonough should have played in many more games this season, however we'll probably see whether they can both stand up to AFL level when they are at different clubs next season to obtain more opportunity. It is clear our coaching staff do not have confidence in them to offer more than other players they've picked during the season (ie Morris, Newman, Llyod, Gordon). You could also include Matt Dea in this discussion as well, probably seeking more opportunities at AFL level elsewhere next season.

Dea is probably closer due to having a more sound game and generally making less mistakes .

 

[Hot tigers]

I'd have thought its pretty hard to step up when both have only played 1 game (and Lennon was subbed out) in 15 games this season, so not sure they've been given chances. McDonough should have played in many more games this season, however we'll probably see whether they can both stand up to AFL level when they are at different clubs next season to obtain more opportunity. It is clear our coaching staff do not have confidence in them to offer more than other players they've picked during the season (ie Morris, Newman, Llyod, Gordon). You could also include Matt Dea in this discussion as well, probably seeking more opportunities at AFL level elsewhere next season.

I would hope not...

The discussion on whether they make it or not is one discussion, however to be a long term contender look at the hawks, having guys that are constantly pushing for selection but more often than not being kept in the 2nds waiting for their opportunity is what successful clubs are all about... Even though currently Lennon and McD are not best 22 i would not like to lose either as IMO they are currently 25-30 and thats where we need to get to, a strong 30-33, having good players pushing is what its all about!!

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Happy for him to get a crack when the match commitee see fit.
Ridiculously overrated in here by some.
He is exactly what he is.
A bloke who has played a hand full of games for a reason.
Has ability that is obvious.
Time she's running out for you to figure it out Matt.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Not going to deny Thomas deserves a shot again, question is if we bring him in for Edwards how does it change the rest of the line up. Thomas can handle the inside midfield stuff but doesn't have the line breaking ability of Edwards so everyone else would need to shift roles as well.

Unless they leave the roof open all week and on match day,No way Thomas should get a Gig.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Chris Newman has the ability to make the correct decision at the right time at key moments and when the heat is in . .

You must have be refering to his magnificent decision making when the heat was on in the VFL game against Footscray a few weeks back scores level,Kicking in from a point where he really only had one option and that was to kick it down the middle but chose to take the easy option and pass to the pocket.Yep thats leadership for you.Thats yesterdays leadership.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Sheesh some posters astound me here - Writing off young tiger players that have hardly been given an opportunity in the seniors...usually it's in for a week ( maybe sub) then dropped whilst others are given time to adapt and prove themselves

Imagine them saying the same thing about Rance who for the best part of his early life was spudding it up

 

[Rubber Hips]

Happy for him to get a crack when the match commitee see fit.
Ridiculously overrated in here by some.
He is exactly what he is.
A bloke who has played a hand full of games for a reason.
Has ability that is obvious.
Time she's running out for you to figure it out Matt.

How is he 'ridiculously overrated in here by some'?
What exactly have you read?

From what I've read, those posters only want him to get some game time in the seniors...they haven't been saying he is the next Nat Fyfe ...they merely want him to be afforded the opportunity...nothing wrong with that

 

[Tiger71]

McDonough just does not work hard enough, its really as simple as that. The players have a strict standard in training, its one reason some spuds like Gordon get picked before McDonough as they give 100% while on the training track while also on the ground come game day. Admittedly Gordon 100% quality is a shadow of what McDonough's but that's the reality.

McDonough's career is there for him to grab with both hands, hopefully from what I hear in the past month he has taken great strides in that area of his development. Its one reason why he and Lennon both form mirror each others, they have not been paired but suffer from the same malaise and are working together to improve it.

Its common with some naturally talented kids, they never had to work as hard as the spuds in there younger years. My bet, they will be picked fairly soon if they keep up there work rate on the training track and maintain the standards needed. Bottom line, we are seeing what we have been crying out for years for. Work rate is one of the most valuable traits now.

 

[Sol23]

McDonough just does not work hard enough, its really as simple as that. The players have a strict standard in training, its one reason some spuds like Gordon get picked before McDonough as they give 100% while on the training track while also on the ground come game day. Admittedly Gordon 100% quality is a shadow of what McDonough's but that's the reality.

McDonough's career is there for him to grab with both hands, hopefully from what I hear in the past month he has taken great strides in that area of his development. Its one reason why he and Lennon both form mirror each others, they have not been paired but suffer from the same malaise and are working together to improve it.

Its common with some naturally talented kids, they never had to work as hard as the spuds in there younger years. My bet, they will be picked fairly soon if they keep up there work rate on the training track and maintain the standards needed. Bottom line, we are seeing what we have been crying out for years for. Work rate is one of the most valuable traits now.

Good hopefully he gets a go soon

 

[monstabud]

he still looks fat and under done. the only thing he dominates is the drive thru at mc spuds

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

How is he 'ridiculously overrated in here by some'?
What exactly have you read?

From what I've read, those posters only want him to get some game time in the seniors...they haven't been saying he is the next Nat Fyfe ...they merely want him to be afforded the opportunity...nothing wrong with that

They are carrying on like he has been given a tough run at it by being ignored for consistently good footy in the twos.
Fact is he's been disappointing.
He has been afforded the opportunity.
This is what really shits me.
The minute you are drafted you have a great opportunity.
Obviously he could be working s lot harder. There are 40 other blokes fighting to have an AFL career on the list and there are always those who just don't get it.its over before they know it.
Everything they did pre being drafted is irrelevant.
Then people get sucked into feeling sorry for them as though they didn't get a fair go.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Wasn't a fan of Newman staying in as you know (made my views known for the gws game), but at least with him you know he is disciplined and will adhere to the structures. I'm wondering if that's the concern they have had with donuts.

Even Shaw on AW was saying last night that the major change with us had been the adherence to the team defense structures (which is something we had always struggled with in the past).

It's very hard to comment on this without watching donuts behind play work and effort, so very much speculating at best

But Newy doesn't, I highlighted a great example in the GWS game where his actions were pathetic and would no way fallen into the team discipline

 

[Ned_Flanders]

But Newy doesn't, I highlighted a great example in the GWS game where his actions were pathetic and would no way fallen into the team discipline

It's still better than donuts

All this does is underline the lack of small forward options we have, it's the best of a bad lot