Traded #3: Scott Gumbleton - Traded to Fremantle for pick 55

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un_eggs said:
You'd best ask Doss that question.
Edit: my draw is not as quick as El Dosso
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He's ****ing omnipresent. Kind of like the waiters at the Crichton medal.
 
Doss said:
More or less. He's going well, just decided he'd had enough of BF.
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Glad I popped along to the last Tanked. Was merely a chance meeting between Jade & Ben that encouraged BtG to come along, finally got to meet the myth after many a rift between the two of us.

Quality guy actually
 

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Yoda_ said:
Glad I popped along to the last Tanked. Was merely a chance meeting between Jade & Ben that encouraged BtG to come along, finally got to meet the myth after many a rift between the two of us.

Quality guy actually
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BtG is a champ.
 

He's still got it.
 
Freo88 said:
no worries mate. Also apologies to some of the freo supporters posting on your board, they whinge when others come onto our board then they go and be complete knobs on other teams board.

Anyway good stuff and i hope the trade works out for all involved. Maybe pick 55 could be a gun/ serviceable player.

Best of luck.
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peppy la pew said:
Good form bombers, you let a homesick player return to the club of his choice. I hope you find a serviceable player with your pick. :thumbsu:
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Karma actually delivered on this occasion. We picked up Fantasia with this pick!
 

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stugots said:
great to hear Hurley has made his X on the right dotted line, but does anyone know what Gumbleton's contract status is?

imho he's as valuable as Hurley & would be a horrible loss

3. Scott Gumbleton
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I agree, what is his contract status...
 
Good article on Scotty, glad to see he's enjoying his footy.

NFL: Scott Gumbleton reflects on Banyule premiership after Essendon doping scandal
Toby Prime, Heidelberg Leader
May 12, 2018 12:00am
Subscriber only
THE taunts are always met with a laugh.

Opponents thinking they may be able to get under his skin by pointing to one of the game’s greatest controversies.

Constant injury setbacks left the now-Banyule captain Scott Gumbleton’s potential largely unfulfilled, but his 35-game AFL career received one final hammer blow on January 12, 2016 when he was one of 34 past and present Essendon players banned for 12 months for doping offences.

The 29-year-old, who lines up with the Bears this afternoon to take on Watsonia, maintains his innocence.

And he remains unperturbed by the occasional sledge, after returning to football to inspire the Bears to their maiden Northern Football League premiership in 2017.

He then booted two goals in a best afield showing in Banyule’s 25-point win over South Morang.

GUMBLETON INSPIRES BEARS TO NFL PREMIERSHIP

GUMBLETON OUT FOR SEASON 2016

COUNTRY NUGGETS GOLD FOR ESSENDON

“Every now and then someone says something but I actually just kind of laugh at it,” Gumbleton said.

“It’s actually quite funny people thinking they know more than they actually do.

“Stuff like, ‘go get another jab’... I just laugh it off, it doesn’t bother me at all.”

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Banyule captain Gumbleton celebrates a goal against South Morang in the NFL third division grand final in 2017. Picture: Andy Brownbill.
He has moved to establish himself outside of the football bubble, completing his third year as an apprentice electrician.

Understandably, the relentlessness of the rumour and innuendo has left him keen to move on from arguably the biggest story in AFL history.

“It definitely weights on your mind, I’ve sort of got to a point now and I think a lot of the guys have, where you just get over it,” he said.

“There’s nothing I can do about it, I still think I am innocent, I think everyone still thinks they are innocent.”

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Gumbleton, with then-Essendon coach Kevin Sheedy, was drafted in 2006.
Banyule coach Peter Davey said the Bears created an culture to help Gumbleton transition back to football.

Returning to the game he loved

“When I first came to the club it was Scott’s first year back and I just wanted it to be a place he could come and enjoy playing footy again,” Davey said.

“Just hearing from previous committee members, they said he was really up and about and then he got suspended with the doping stuff.

“They weren’t sure he was going to come back and play again so we just wanted an environment where he could play with his mates and enjoy playing footy again and not have to worry about any stress.”

The former Bomber and Docker was precluded from any involvement in football during his ban, but remained in contact with teammates and coaches.

“I worked but I had a lot of spare time on my hands, it wasn’t very enjoyable to tell you the truth, I needed something to do,” he said.

“It was a bit harder than what I thought but playing footy now you get a bit of structure back in your life over winter.

“You don’t realise how much structure footy actually gives you until you stop playing.”

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Gumbleton takes a mark in an Essendon v Carlton clash at the MCG.
He left the AFL system exhausted at the end of 2014, opting to travel overseas and not even giving a thought to playing again.

Injury setbacks



Gumbleton had arrived at Windy Hill from Peel Thunder as an outstanding key position prospect capable of playing at either end of the ground, selected only behind Bryce Gibbs at pick No.2 in the 2006 draft.

His best year came in 2010 when he played 17 of the first 18 games but injuries meant he failed to make an appearance at the top level in four of his eight seasons.

Gumbleton spent a year at Fremantle in the hope of breathing new life into his career, but the constant setbacks followed him across the Nullabor.

He failed to play a match for the Dockers, finishing with a tally of 35 from a possible 183, and left the AFL system exhausted at the end of 2014, opting to travel overseas and not even giving a thought to playing again.

“I did get frustrated all the time, I could see the more injuries I got, the less and less I could do,” he said.

He returned from overseas and after catching up with former Banyule skipper Ash Brown, who is involved with the Bombers’ VFL program, decided to have a kick at R.J. Brockwell Oval.

“I actually didn’t think I was going to play again, I didn’t really want to ever play again but as soon as I started playing and met the guys, I actually started enjoying footy again,” Gumbleton said.

“As I started coming back playing local footy, not training as much, a bit more relaxed in the social side of things, it just made me fall in love with it again.”

After sitting on the sidelines for a year, the highlight of Gumbleton’s senior career came when he hoisted the 2017 NFL Division 3 premiership alongside coach Davey.

Banyule had provided Gumbleton with support through one of the toughest periods of his life and the flag was a “good to pay them back a little bit”.

“Just a long road I guess, winning a flag, that’s why you play footy, that’s why you play footy as a young kid and when you get a bit older, you find you really want to win and have success,” he said.

“When you win one (premiership) of those it’s probably the best feeling you can get.”

Gumbleton will next line up with Banyule at 4:10pm today, to play Watsonia at TAK Lines Reserve, Watsonia.
 
TeamHurley said:
hamstring
knee soreness, knee arthroscope
back spasm, fractured ribs & punctured lung; finger & thumb surgery + knee arthroscope
back spasm
back surgery
back
knee, collarbone & surgery
hamstring
hamstring
hamstring
knee

Poor gumby never had a chance. Believe he has been heavily restricted in what weights he can do due to his back so has never really been able to bulk up.

Does he have talent? We all saw glimpses of what he could be.. a 198cm forward with a good set of hands and a massive tank.

Only recently it seems that most are resigning to the fact that he might not ever make it.

Havn't entirly given up on the big fella but its not looking that great.
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Reading back through this thread a little and found a nice summary (which is great, coz now I don't have to make one).

I think the back spasm, surgery on the bulging disk were in mid-2009. Then he played most of the 2010 season, then more hamstring injuries.

Also found an old thing from Dodoro reflecting on it during the covid pod in 2020, which evidently isn't in this thread given the last bump is 5 years old 🤣

Asked by an Essendon member why the club opted for Gumbleton at Pick 2 and why it didn’t work out for either party, Dodoro told Dodcast: “This is a dagger in the heart.”

While Carlton took Bryce Gibbs at Pick 1, Gumbleton was widely regarded around the industry at the time as just as capable at No. 1.

Dodoro said Gumbleton should’ve been “an absolutely outstanding AFL player”.

“You’ve got to look at it like this: He’s 200cm, he does a 16 beep (test) which is absolutely freakish, he marked the ball at its highest point, he went back with the flight of the ball with courage … He was the prototype key-position forward. He had everything that Nick Riewoldt had at the same age, let’s not make any mistake about that,” Dodoro told Dodcast.

“That’s why he went Pick 2 and that’s why he probably broke a lot of our hearts.

“He did his medical screening and he passed it with flying colours. But early on in the piece, he had chronic hamstring problems when he ripped his hamstring really badly … From there, he developed some pretty severe back problems, which required two operations – and that was basically the end of his career.

“No one has crystal balls in these situations. You pick them on their merits. He was Pick 2 every day of the week.

“That’s how the cookie crumbles. It’s one you go to bed every night thinking ‘what could have been’ with him because he should have been an absolute star the competition.”
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www.foxsports.com.au

‘A dagger in the heart’: Adrian Dodoro explains two key Essendon draft choices

‘A dagger in the heart’: How two draft snubs backfired on Essendon
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

Sounds like it must've been a Grade 3 hamstring, which means one of the muscles is completely torn. That injury seems to have recurred at Fremantle after he was traded.

He was also one of the 34 players caught up in the saga, which may have been a bit of an uncited factor when he left the club at the end of 2013. Also for whatever reason when he retired from Freo he said it somehow wasn't due to the injuries... despite there being a bloody lot of them!
 
Sad To hear this, He was a talented player when fit too.

He is also a Peel Thunder boy too.

Scott Gumbleton, Daniel Wells, Anthony Morabito and Harley Bennell.....

All of them have the same things in common.

-All 4 came from peel thunder

-All of them were taken early in their respective drafts,

-All were top 5 picks

-All 4 of them had talent

-All 4 had their careers stuffed by injuries.
 
Lore said:
Reading back through this thread a little and found a nice summary (which is great, coz now I don't have to make one).

I think the back spasm, surgery on the bulging disk were in mid-2009. Then he played most of the 2010 season, then more hamstring injuries.

Also found an old thing from Dodoro reflecting on it during the covid pod in 2020, which evidently isn't in this thread given the last bump is 5 years old 🤣


www.foxsports.com.au

‘A dagger in the heart’: Adrian Dodoro explains two key Essendon draft choices

‘A dagger in the heart’: How two draft snubs backfired on Essendon
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

Sounds like it must've been a Grade 3 hamstring, which means one of the muscles is completely torn. That injury seems to have recurred at Fremantle after he was traded.

He was also one of the 34 players caught up in the saga, which may have been a bit of an uncited factor when he left the club at the end of 2013. Also for whatever reason when he retired from Freo he said it somehow wasn't due to the injuries... despite there being a bloody lot of them!
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Hope this isn't Zach Reid's trajectory.
 
Resistor said:
Hope this isn't Zach Reid's trajectory.
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Me too... Although Gumby is probably the most chronically injured player ever drafted in the history of the league so it's probably unlikely 😝

Below is Gumby's injury/playing history as best I can confirm, with years representing standard contract seasons, e.g., 2007 is Nov 1 2006 – Oct 31 2007.

2007 – 5 AFL games, ?? VFL games: drafted, knee issue (pre-season?), plays VFL (Mar), 6 week hamstring same side as knee (May), plays VFL (Jul), plays AFL R17-R22

2008 – 0 AFL games, 2 VFL games: 3 week hamstring (pre-season Dec), plays preseason, 9 week hamstring (Feb), 3-4 week left MCL strain (May), played 2 VFL games, broken collarbone & surgery (Jun, surgery, "6 weeks", season ending)

2009 – 0 games: full training (pre-season Nov), 14 weeks bulging disc & surgery (Mar, conservative approach, season ending)

2010 – 17 AFL games, 0 VFL games: completed 100% of pre-season and put on 6kg, 2 weeks back spasm (Feb), played R1-R14, withdrawn "soreness", played R16-R18, 3-4 weeks broken ribs & punctured lung (Jul), 3 opportunistic surgeries on thumb, finger, and knee (Aug – season ending)

2011 – 0 AFL games, 9 VFL games, avail. 2 weeks no VFL: sore knee & another surgery (pre-season Nov), Playing VFL, 8 weeks out with 2 week hamstring (Apr), avail. VFL bye (Jun), 1 week back injury (Jun), plays VFL, 1 week hamstring (Jul), 1 week back (Jul), plays VFL, rested, plays VFL

2012 – 6 AFL games, 6 VFL games: 6 months out surgery to correct spine scarring caused another bulging disc & trapped nerve (pre-season Nov), plays VFL (May), minor concussion & stitches but recovers during the VFL bye (Jun), plays VFL, plays R16-20, subbed out then missed R21 "soreness", plays R22, missed R23 "soreness"

2013 – 7 AFL games, 8 VFL games, avail. 4 weeks no VFL: 4 week hamstring (pre-season Dec), soreness & modified program (Jan), plays VFL, plays R4-R7, rested, plays VFL, plays R10, 1 week ankle (Jun), plays VFL, plays R19-20, minor hamstring injury, traded

2014 – 0 AFL games, 6 WAFL games: uninterrupted pre-season, 12 week hamstring, plays WAFL (Jun), withdrawn 1 week back (Jul), play WAFL (Jul), withdrawn 1 week back (Jul), 5-6 week hamstring (Aug), retired, due for knee surgery

2007 – 5 AFL games, ?? VFL games
"suss" knee during pre-season?
1/3-15/4 playing VFL​
22/4 ??? VFL (R3), did he play???​
9/5 hamstring injury (5-6 weeks - same side as knee)
18/6 VFL return likely after extended lay off​
8/7-1/9 playing footy, including AFL rounds 17-22​
10/12 slight hamstring strain, full training in 3 weeks

2008 – 0 AFL games, 2 VFL games
16/2 Plays pre-season games​
16/2-21/4 hamstring during PS game, "4 weeks"
21/4 rested one more week from a hamstring injury​
1/5-4/6 - strained medial ligament (knee) during training, 3-4 weeks
4/6 back on the track after injuries​
10/6 successful return to the VFL, played 60 mins​
16/6 played VFL "playing his second game of the year for Bendigo after recovering from hamstring and knee injuries"​
16/6 - 21/7+ left collarbone fracture, surgery. min 6 weeks (3 months w/o surgery). "third setback this year" "on track for a recall to the senior side so disappointed"

2009 – 0 games
7/11 looking good, completed beep and yoyo tests etc​
16/3 bulging disc, surgery after 2 weeks, then miss another 12 weeks
10/4 Licka reckons he had to have the surgery, alternative was 2 months rest. hopefully playing in 12 weeks, otherwise 15-16 weeks.​
8/7 conservative approach, coach says it's unlikely he plays seniors in 2009​

2010 – 17 AFL games, 0 VFL games
29/1 100% of pre-season training, put on 6kg​
6/2 played intra-club​
9/2 Back spasm, "twisted and locked up his back", hoping it settles. Miss first NAB challenge, hoping to be back R2
22/2 cleared of injury​
27/2-3/7 Playing footy, including R1-14​
11/7 withdrawn from Round 15, "sore in a few areas"
17/7-30/7 Played Rounds 16-18​
31/7 broken ribs, punctured lung, 3-4 weeks (rest of season)
31/7-24/8 used the opportunity to get surgery on his thumb, surgery on his finger
25/8-1/9 also a knee arthroscope

2011 – 0 AFL games, 9 VFL games, avail. 2 weeks no VFL
1/12 hurt his knee in the middle of last month, ordered to rest, had an operation "on Tuesday" (30/11)
5/12 had surgery on his knee recently, expected to be back running before Christmas (editorial)​
15/3 restricted pre-string with hamstring trouble, could play VFL this weekend, chance to play R1​
27/3 did not play in round 1... which was this date.​
2/4 VFL (R1)​
9/4 VFL (R2)​
13/4 hamstring, 2 weeks
17/4 did not play VFL (R3)​
23/4 did not play VFL (R4)​
27/4 R6 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
30/4 VFL bye (R5)​
3/5 R7 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
11/5 R8 injury list: hamstring, 1-2 weeks​
18/5 R9 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
19/5 R9 preview: hamstring, ongoing assessment​
24/5 R10 injury list: hamstring, indefinite​
1/6 R11 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
4/6 VFL bye (R10) would be this week if not for the bye​
7/6 will come back from a hamstring in the VFL next week​
12/6 not selected for VFL (R11)
15/6 R13 injury list: back, 1 week to go, R13 preview: back, 1 week​
19/6 returns from a hamstring in the VFL (R12) after missing 2 months with a hamstring. comes into senior calculations per development coach. "promising return to the VFL last week." gotta play a few more to get confidence in his body.​
25/6 VFL (R13)​
2/7 VFL bye (R14)​
10/7 VFL (R15)​
14/7 has played 4 VFL games this year, pre-season knee issue and 2 hamstring strains (possibly wrong date?)​
16/7 VFL (R16), pretty good for us in VFL, stringing together a number of games - VFL coach, strong VFL performance. last 2 games for the reserves pretty good. another 2-3 weeks away before senior contention but stiff competition to get a game. - Hird + dev coach​
24/7 hamstring, not available for VFL (R17)
30/7 VFL bye (R18) may or may not have played​
3/8 R20 injury list: back, 1 week, R20 preview: back, test
6/8 VFL (R19)​
13/8 VFL (R20), could be in contention - Twomey​
20/8 didn't play VFL (R21) to make sure we're looking after his body - Hird
25/8 nearing a return, has played 2 games in reserves after re-injuring his hamstring "about 6 weeks ago". moving really well at training will play this week but probably in the reserves. - Hird​
27/8 VFL (R22) end of the season​
10/10 "had a few setbacks this year, got his body right"​

2012 – 6 AFL games, 6 VFL games
18/11 back spasms, surgery needed, "a lot of scarring around the site of the previous operation and a problem with another disc" "trapped a nerve" "should be back running in 6 weeks"
24/12 surgery was successful, but still 3 months from full fitness​
10/2 Long term injury listed (min. 8 weeks): "Gumbleton had back surgery last November and is progressing well on a modified training program." "We are very keen to make sure we rehab Scott properly and give him every chance when he does come back so he is able to play consecutive games,” Hamilton said."​
27/3 back, LTI list​
13/4 R3 preview vs GC: injury listed as 'back'​
4/5 R6 preview vs BL: 'test'​
15/5 likely to play after recovering from back surgery (6 months ago)​
19/5 VFL (R9) returns from back surgery, first game of the year. Physically ready for a few weeks but held back by conditioning staff. 3-4 weeks then seniors​
2/6 VFL (R10) 3 goals against Williamstown, everyone excited about him getting back in the mix at Bomberland​
10/6 VFL (R11)​
16/6 VFL (R12)​
23/6 VFL (R13) Minor concussion, ~12 stitches. VFL bye following week. "5 VFL matches this year so far."
30/6 VFL bye (R14) would've missed with concussion​
8/7 VFL (R15) After AFL game coach considering promoting him​
14/7-12/8 Rounds 16-20​
12/8 R20 – subbed out
18/8 R21 – omitted, "soreness"​
24/8 Round 22​
1/9 missed Round 23, "soreness"
12/9-19/10 re-signing stuff, did a medical at Freo but stayed​

2013 – 7 AFL games, 8 VFL games, avail. 4 weeks no VFL
8/12 hamstring, restricted until January
18/2 "returned in January then pulled up sore and has been on a modified program. Should be right for Richmond game."
2/3 missed NAB cup R2 match (Richmond game)​
8/3 missed NAB cup R3 match​
15/3 VFL practice match, 5 goals, physically ready​
22/3 missed Round 1/no VFL​
29/3 no game split Round 1 both comps​
5/4 VFL (R1)​
13/4 VFL (R2)​
20/4 Round 4​
25/4 Round 5​
4/5 Round 6​
10/5 Round 7 <VFL bye>​
18/5 Round 8 "rested due to risk of injury as indicated by high performance team" - Hird
25/5 VFL (R7)​
1/6 Round 10​
7/6 Round 11 missed due to an ankle
16/6 VFL (R10)​
22/6 VFL bye (R11) "bat so deep Bellchambers and Gumbleton can't get a game"​
29/6 VFL (R12) 5 goals against Werribee​
7/7 VFL (R13)​
14/7 VFL bye, not selected in AFL​
21/7 VFL (R14) on the fringe of selection - Twomey​
27/7 VFL (R15)​
4/8 Round 19​
11/8 Round 20 corkie early in the game​
17/8 R21 didn't play at either level
24/8 R22 injury list: hamstring, test​
31/8 R23 injury list: "soreness", test​
Traded​

2014 – played 0 games (Fremantle)
22/1 training with Pav, everything good etc​
4/2 hasn't missed a session over pre-season unless we make him rest​
26/2 torn right hamstring during nab challenge (12 weeks, really 15+ weeks)
1/3 hamstring, will miss 12 weeks​
23/4 R6 injury list: hamstring, 7 weeks​
5/5 sidelined with a hamstring injury​
27/5 can't wait to pull on Peel jumper in 2-3 weeks​
7/6 WAFL (R11)​
14/6 WAFL (R12)​
21/6 WAFL (R13)​
28/6 WAFL (R14)​
5/7 WAFL (R15)​
12/7 named in the WAFL (R16), withdrawn back injury
19/7 WAFL (R17)​
26/7 Peel bye WAFL (R18)​
29/7 injury report: back (test)
31/7 R19 injury list: calf?​
1/8 named in the WAFL (R21)​
2/8 withdrawn from WAFL (R21), leg soft-tissue injury, sent for scans (missed a month)
5/8 injury list: hamstring, 3 weeks​
12/8 injury list: hamstring, 2-3 weeks​
19/8 injury list: hamstring, 2 weeks​
26/8 injury list: hamstring, 2 weeks​
1/9 Retired​
Due for a minor knee operation

Couple of things I notice here:
  • The first knee injury happened in his very first pre-season and was probably pre-existing, followed by a second one in his second season.
  • He had 3 hamstring injuries in his first 2 years at the club. They started within months of arriving.
  • His back issue was identified in the third year of his AFL career, it involved a bulging disc and surgery, and then further surgery in his sixth year to correct scarring another bulging disc, and an impeded nerve.

Back stress fractures, bulging discs and the need for surgery are not mutually inclusive. I did a bit of reading about it, so the below is paraphrased:

paraphrased for brevity from the link below said:
So we first have some new vocabulary:
  • Pars interarticularis is the skinny/most fragile bit of the vertebrae that keeps the spine together.
  • Spondylolysis is a back stress fracture usually involving the pars interarticularis, which has degrees of severity.
  • Spondylolisthesis is when the vertebrae are displaced, which causes a herniated disc and can put pressure on the nerve roots and spinal cord.

    (I'll underline the extra letters to help distinguish the two coz the two words look almost the same.)

    a00053f02.jpg

It goes on to say that, for most people, spondylolysis or low grade spondylolisthesis can be treated without surgery. Non-surgical treatment involves rest, nurofen, strength and mobility exercises, and sometimes a back brace for a while that limits movement so the bone can heal.

Surgery is only recommended for high-grade or severe cases of spondylolisthesis, and involves spinal fusion of the vertebrae with rods and screws that will permanently stop that bit of the spine from moving.

In cases that have nerve related symptoms like numbness, tingling, pain due to the spinal cord and nerve roots being put under pressure, they also need to surgically open up the spinal canal.
Click to expand...
orthoinfo.aaos.org

Spondylolysis and Spondylolisthesis - OrthoInfo - AAOS

Spondylolysis (spon-dee-low-lye-sis) and spondylolisthesis (spon-dee-low-lis-thee-sis) are common causes of low back pain in children and adolescents who participate in sports that involve repeated stress on the lower back—such as gymnastics, football, and weight lifting.
orthoinfo.aaos.org orthoinfo.aaos.org

I think from this we can deduce that what Gumby had was one of the most severe versions of spondylolisthesis, because we know that it involved two discs, nerves and required two surgeries. That is what we might call his back was already totally ****ED by his 3rd season.

Plenty of players have had spondylolysis and have been treated conservatively with rest and management. Once it heals, they go on to have long careers with no related issues other than a bit of atrophy, lack of mobility and uneven conditioning immediately after the period of rest required for the spine to heal.

Ridley had them, Josh Dunkley had them, Jack Crisp had them, Phil Davis had them...

Hopefully this latest group of back stress fractures at the club are ordinary spondylolysis and don't require any surgery.
 
Lore said:
Me too... Although Gumby is probably the most chronically injured player ever drafted in the history of the league so it's probably unlikely 😝

Below is Gumby's injury/playing history as best I can confirm, with years representing standard contract seasons, e.g., 2007 is Nov 1 2006 – Oct 31 2007.

2007 – 5 AFL games, ?? VFL games: drafted, knee issue (pre-season?), plays VFL (Mar), 6 week hamstring same side as knee (May), plays VFL (Jul), plays AFL R17-R22

2008 – 0 AFL games, 2 VFL games: 3 week hamstring (pre-season Dec), plays preseason, 9 week hamstring (Feb), 3-4 week left MCL strain (May), played 2 VFL games, broken collarbone & surgery (Jun, surgery, "6 weeks", season ending)

2009 – 0 games: full training (pre-season Nov), 14 weeks bulging disc & surgery (Mar, conservative approach, season ending)

2010 – 17 AFL games, 0 VFL games: completed 100% of pre-season and put on 6kg, 2 weeks back spasm (Feb), played R1-R14, withdrawn "soreness", played R16-R18, 3-4 weeks broken ribs & punctured lung (Jul), 3 opportunistic surgeries on thumb, finger, and knee (Aug – season ending)

2011 – 0 AFL games, 9 VFL games, avail. 2 weeks no VFL: sore knee & another surgery (pre-season Nov), Playing VFL, 8 weeks out with 2 week hamstring (Apr), avail. VFL bye (Jun), 1 week back injury (Jun), plays VFL, 1 week hamstring (Jul), 1 week back (Jul), plays VFL, rested, plays VFL

2012 – 6 AFL games, 6 VFL games: 6 months out surgery to correct spine scarring caused another bulging disc & trapped nerve (pre-season Nov), plays VFL (May), minor concussion & stitches but recovers during the VFL bye (Jun), plays VFL, plays R16-20, subbed out then missed R21 "soreness", plays R22, missed R23 "soreness"

2013 – 7 AFL games, 8 VFL games, avail. 4 weeks no VFL: 4 week hamstring (pre-season Dec), soreness & modified program (Jan), plays VFL, plays R4-R7, rested, plays VFL, plays R10, 1 week ankle (Jun), plays VFL, plays R19-20, minor hamstring injury, traded

2014 – 0 AFL games, 6 WAFL games: uninterrupted pre-season, 12 week hamstring, plays WAFL (Jun), withdrawn 1 week back (Jul), play WAFL (Jul), withdrawn 1 week back (Jul), 5-6 week hamstring (Aug), retired, due for knee surgery

2007 – 5 AFL games, ?? VFL games
"suss" knee during pre-season?
1/3-15/4 playing VFL​
22/4 ??? VFL (R3), did he play???​
9/5 hamstring injury (5-6 weeks - same side as knee)
18/6 VFL return likely after extended lay off​
8/7-1/9 playing footy, including AFL rounds 17-22​
10/12 slight hamstring strain, full training in 3 weeks

2008 – 0 AFL games, 2 VFL games
16/2 Plays pre-season games​
16/2-21/4 hamstring during PS game, "4 weeks"
21/4 rested one more week from a hamstring injury​
1/5-4/6 - strained medial ligament (knee) during training, 3-4 weeks
4/6 back on the track after injuries​
10/6 successful return to the VFL, played 60 mins​
16/6 played VFL "playing his second game of the year for Bendigo after recovering from hamstring and knee injuries"​
16/6 - 21/7+ left collarbone fracture, surgery. min 6 weeks (3 months w/o surgery). "third setback this year" "on track for a recall to the senior side so disappointed"

2009 – 0 games
7/11 looking good, completed beep and yoyo tests etc​
16/3 bulging disc, surgery after 2 weeks, then miss another 12 weeks
10/4 Licka reckons he had to have the surgery, alternative was 2 months rest. hopefully playing in 12 weeks, otherwise 15-16 weeks.​
8/7 conservative approach, coach says it's unlikely he plays seniors in 2009​

2010 – 17 AFL games, 0 VFL games
29/1 100% of pre-season training, put on 6kg​
6/2 played intra-club​
9/2 Back spasm, "twisted and locked up his back", hoping it settles. Miss first NAB challenge, hoping to be back R2
22/2 cleared of injury​
27/2-3/7 Playing footy, including R1-14​
11/7 withdrawn from Round 15, "sore in a few areas"
17/7-30/7 Played Rounds 16-18​
31/7 broken ribs, punctured lung, 3-4 weeks (rest of season)
31/7-24/8 used the opportunity to get surgery on his thumb, surgery on his finger
25/8-1/9 also a knee arthroscope

2011 – 0 AFL games, 9 VFL games, avail. 2 weeks no VFL
1/12 hurt his knee in the middle of last month, ordered to rest, had an operation "on Tuesday" (30/11)
5/12 had surgery on his knee recently, expected to be back running before Christmas (editorial)​
15/3 restricted pre-string with hamstring trouble, could play VFL this weekend, chance to play R1​
27/3 did not play in round 1... which was this date.​
2/4 VFL (R1)​
9/4 VFL (R2)​
13/4 hamstring, 2 weeks
17/4 did not play VFL (R3)​
23/4 did not play VFL (R4)​
27/4 R6 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
30/4 VFL bye (R5)​
3/5 R7 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
11/5 R8 injury list: hamstring, 1-2 weeks​
18/5 R9 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
19/5 R9 preview: hamstring, ongoing assessment​
24/5 R10 injury list: hamstring, indefinite​
1/6 R11 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
4/6 VFL bye (R10) would be this week if not for the bye​
7/6 will come back from a hamstring in the VFL next week​
12/6 not selected for VFL (R11)
15/6 R13 injury list: back, 1 week to go, R13 preview: back, 1 week​
19/6 returns from a hamstring in the VFL (R12) after missing 2 months with a hamstring. comes into senior calculations per development coach. "promising return to the VFL last week." gotta play a few more to get confidence in his body.​
25/6 VFL (R13)​
2/7 VFL bye (R14)​
10/7 VFL (R15)​
14/7 has played 4 VFL games this year, pre-season knee issue and 2 hamstring strains (possibly wrong date?)​
16/7 VFL (R16), pretty good for us in VFL, stringing together a number of games - VFL coach, strong VFL performance. last 2 games for the reserves pretty good. another 2-3 weeks away before senior contention but stiff competition to get a game. - Hird + dev coach​
24/7 hamstring, not available for VFL (R17)
30/7 VFL bye (R18) may or may not have played​
3/8 R20 injury list: back, 1 week, R20 preview: back, test
6/8 VFL (R19)​
13/8 VFL (R20), could be in contention - Twomey​
20/8 didn't play VFL (R21) to make sure we're looking after his body - Hird
25/8 nearing a return, has played 2 games in reserves after re-injuring his hamstring "about 6 weeks ago". moving really well at training will play this week but probably in the reserves. - Hird​
27/8 VFL (R22) end of the season​
10/10 "had a few setbacks this year, got his body right"​

2012 – 6 AFL games, 6 VFL games
18/11 back spasms, surgery needed, "a lot of scarring around the site of the previous operation and a problem with another disc" "trapped a nerve" "should be back running in 6 weeks"
24/12 surgery was successful, but still 3 months from full fitness​
10/2 Long term injury listed (min. 8 weeks): "Gumbleton had back surgery last November and is progressing well on a modified training program." "We are very keen to make sure we rehab Scott properly and give him every chance when he does come back so he is able to play consecutive games,” Hamilton said."​
27/3 back, LTI list​
13/4 R3 preview vs GC: injury listed as 'back'​
4/5 R6 preview vs BL: 'test'​
15/5 likely to play after recovering from back surgery (6 months ago)​
19/5 VFL (R9) returns from back surgery, first game of the year. Physically ready for a few weeks but held back by conditioning staff. 3-4 weeks then seniors​
2/6 VFL (R10) 3 goals against Williamstown, everyone excited about him getting back in the mix at Bomberland​
10/6 VFL (R11)​
16/6 VFL (R12)​
23/6 VFL (R13) Minor concussion, ~12 stitches. VFL bye following week. "5 VFL matches this year so far."
30/6 VFL bye (R14) would've missed with concussion​
8/7 VFL (R15) After AFL game coach considering promoting him​
14/7-12/8 Rounds 16-20​
12/8 R20 – subbed out
18/8 R21 – omitted, "soreness"​
24/8 Round 22​
1/9 missed Round 23, "soreness"
12/9-19/10 re-signing stuff, did a medical at Freo but stayed​

2013 – 7 AFL games, 8 VFL games, avail. 4 weeks no VFL
8/12 hamstring, restricted until January
18/2 "returned in January then pulled up sore and has been on a modified program. Should be right for Richmond game."
2/3 missed NAB cup R2 match (Richmond game)​
8/3 missed NAB cup R3 match​
15/3 VFL practice match, 5 goals, physically ready​
22/3 missed Round 1/no VFL​
29/3 no game split Round 1 both comps​
5/4 VFL (R1)​
13/4 VFL (R2)​
20/4 Round 4​
25/4 Round 5​
4/5 Round 6​
10/5 Round 7 <VFL bye>​
18/5 Round 8 "rested due to risk of injury as indicated by high performance team" - Hird
25/5 VFL (R7)​
1/6 Round 10​
7/6 Round 11 missed due to an ankle
16/6 VFL (R10)​
22/6 VFL bye (R11) "bat so deep Bellchambers and Gumbleton can't get a game"​
29/6 VFL (R12) 5 goals against Werribee​
7/7 VFL (R13)​
14/7 VFL bye, not selected in AFL​
21/7 VFL (R14) on the fringe of selection - Twomey​
27/7 VFL (R15)​
4/8 Round 19​
11/8 Round 20 corkie early in the game​
17/8 R21 didn't play at either level
24/8 R22 injury list: hamstring, test​
31/8 R23 injury list: "soreness", test​
Traded​

2014 – played 0 games (Fremantle)
22/1 training with Pav, everything good etc​
4/2 hasn't missed a session over pre-season unless we make him rest​
26/2 torn right hamstring during nab challenge (12 weeks, really 15+ weeks)
1/3 hamstring, will miss 12 weeks​
23/4 R6 injury list: hamstring, 7 weeks​
5/5 sidelined with a hamstring injury​
27/5 can't wait to pull on Peel jumper in 2-3 weeks​
7/6 WAFL (R11)​
14/6 WAFL (R12)​
21/6 WAFL (R13)​
28/6 WAFL (R14)​
5/7 WAFL (R15)​
12/7 named in the WAFL (R16), withdrawn back injury
19/7 WAFL (R17)​
26/7 Peel bye WAFL (R18)​
29/7 injury report: back (test)
31/7 R19 injury list: calf?​
1/8 named in the WAFL (R21)​
2/8 withdrawn from WAFL (R21), leg soft-tissue injury, sent for scans (missed a month)
5/8 injury list: hamstring, 3 weeks​
12/8 injury list: hamstring, 2-3 weeks​
19/8 injury list: hamstring, 2 weeks​
26/8 injury list: hamstring, 2 weeks​
1/9 Retired​
Due for a minor knee operation

Couple of things I notice here:
  • The first knee injury happened in his very first pre-season and was probably pre-existing, followed by a second one in his second season.
  • He had 3 hamstring injuries in his first 2 years at the club. They started within months of arriving.
  • His back issue was identified in the third year of his AFL career, it involved a bulging disc and surgery, and then further surgery in his sixth year to correct scarring another bulging disc, and an impeded nerve.

Back stress fractures, bulging discs and the need for surgery are not mutually inclusive. I did a bit of reading about it, so the below is paraphrased:


orthoinfo.aaos.org

Spondylolysis and Spondylolisthesis - OrthoInfo - AAOS

Spondylolysis (spon-dee-low-lye-sis) and spondylolisthesis (spon-dee-low-lis-thee-sis) are common causes of low back pain in children and adolescents who participate in sports that involve repeated stress on the lower back—such as gymnastics, football, and weight lifting.
orthoinfo.aaos.org orthoinfo.aaos.org

I think from this we can deduce that what Gumby had was one of the most severe versions of spondylolisthesis, because we know that it involved two discs, nerves and required two surgeries. That is what we might call his back was already totally ****ed by his 3rd season.

Plenty of players have had spondylolysis and have been treated conservatively with rest and management. Once it heals, they go on to have long careers with no related issues other than a bit of atrophy, lack of mobility and uneven conditioning immediately after the period of rest required for the spine to heal.

Ridley had them, Josh Dunkley had them, Jack Crisp had them, Phil Davis had them...

Hopefully this latest group of back stress fractures at the club are ordinary spondylolysis and don't require any surgery.
Click to expand...
What I get from this is that there may never be another player who actually measures up to Gumby injury wise.

Or at least for their sake you hope not.
 
Lore said:
Me too... Although Gumby is probably the most chronically injured player ever drafted in the history of the league so it's probably unlikely 😝

Below is Gumby's injury/playing history as best I can confirm, with years representing standard contract seasons, e.g., 2007 is Nov 1 2006 – Oct 31 2007.

2007 – 5 AFL games, ?? VFL games: drafted, knee issue (pre-season?), plays VFL (Mar), 6 week hamstring same side as knee (May), plays VFL (Jul), plays AFL R17-R22

2008 – 0 AFL games, 2 VFL games: 3 week hamstring (pre-season Dec), plays preseason, 9 week hamstring (Feb), 3-4 week left MCL strain (May), played 2 VFL games, broken collarbone & surgery (Jun, surgery, "6 weeks", season ending)

2009 – 0 games: full training (pre-season Nov), 14 weeks bulging disc & surgery (Mar, conservative approach, season ending)

2010 – 17 AFL games, 0 VFL games: completed 100% of pre-season and put on 6kg, 2 weeks back spasm (Feb), played R1-R14, withdrawn "soreness", played R16-R18, 3-4 weeks broken ribs & punctured lung (Jul), 3 opportunistic surgeries on thumb, finger, and knee (Aug – season ending)

2011 – 0 AFL games, 9 VFL games, avail. 2 weeks no VFL: sore knee & another surgery (pre-season Nov), Playing VFL, 8 weeks out with 2 week hamstring (Apr), avail. VFL bye (Jun), 1 week back injury (Jun), plays VFL, 1 week hamstring (Jul), 1 week back (Jul), plays VFL, rested, plays VFL

2012 – 6 AFL games, 6 VFL games: 6 months out surgery to correct spine scarring caused another bulging disc & trapped nerve (pre-season Nov), plays VFL (May), minor concussion & stitches but recovers during the VFL bye (Jun), plays VFL, plays R16-20, subbed out then missed R21 "soreness", plays R22, missed R23 "soreness"

2013 – 7 AFL games, 8 VFL games, avail. 4 weeks no VFL: 4 week hamstring (pre-season Dec), soreness & modified program (Jan), plays VFL, plays R4-R7, rested, plays VFL, plays R10, 1 week ankle (Jun), plays VFL, plays R19-20, minor hamstring injury, traded

2014 – 0 AFL games, 6 WAFL games: uninterrupted pre-season, 12 week hamstring, plays WAFL (Jun), withdrawn 1 week back (Jul), play WAFL (Jul), withdrawn 1 week back (Jul), 5-6 week hamstring (Aug), retired, due for knee surgery

2007 – 5 AFL games, ?? VFL games
"suss" knee during pre-season?
1/3-15/4 playing VFL​
22/4 ??? VFL (R3), did he play???​
9/5 hamstring injury (5-6 weeks - same side as knee)
18/6 VFL return likely after extended lay off​
8/7-1/9 playing footy, including AFL rounds 17-22​
10/12 slight hamstring strain, full training in 3 weeks

2008 – 0 AFL games, 2 VFL games
16/2 Plays pre-season games​
16/2-21/4 hamstring during PS game, "4 weeks"
21/4 rested one more week from a hamstring injury​
1/5-4/6 - strained medial ligament (knee) during training, 3-4 weeks
4/6 back on the track after injuries​
10/6 successful return to the VFL, played 60 mins​
16/6 played VFL "playing his second game of the year for Bendigo after recovering from hamstring and knee injuries"​
16/6 - 21/7+ left collarbone fracture, surgery. min 6 weeks (3 months w/o surgery). "third setback this year" "on track for a recall to the senior side so disappointed"

2009 – 0 games
7/11 looking good, completed beep and yoyo tests etc​
16/3 bulging disc, surgery after 2 weeks, then miss another 12 weeks
10/4 Licka reckons he had to have the surgery, alternative was 2 months rest. hopefully playing in 12 weeks, otherwise 15-16 weeks.​
8/7 conservative approach, coach says it's unlikely he plays seniors in 2009​

2010 – 17 AFL games, 0 VFL games
29/1 100% of pre-season training, put on 6kg​
6/2 played intra-club​
9/2 Back spasm, "twisted and locked up his back", hoping it settles. Miss first NAB challenge, hoping to be back R2
22/2 cleared of injury​
27/2-3/7 Playing footy, including R1-14​
11/7 withdrawn from Round 15, "sore in a few areas"
17/7-30/7 Played Rounds 16-18​
31/7 broken ribs, punctured lung, 3-4 weeks (rest of season)
31/7-24/8 used the opportunity to get surgery on his thumb, surgery on his finger
25/8-1/9 also a knee arthroscope

2011 – 0 AFL games, 9 VFL games, avail. 2 weeks no VFL
1/12 hurt his knee in the middle of last month, ordered to rest, had an operation "on Tuesday" (30/11)
5/12 had surgery on his knee recently, expected to be back running before Christmas (editorial)​
15/3 restricted pre-string with hamstring trouble, could play VFL this weekend, chance to play R1​
27/3 did not play in round 1... which was this date.​
2/4 VFL (R1)​
9/4 VFL (R2)​
13/4 hamstring, 2 weeks
17/4 did not play VFL (R3)​
23/4 did not play VFL (R4)​
27/4 R6 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
30/4 VFL bye (R5)​
3/5 R7 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
11/5 R8 injury list: hamstring, 1-2 weeks​
18/5 R9 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
19/5 R9 preview: hamstring, ongoing assessment​
24/5 R10 injury list: hamstring, indefinite​
1/6 R11 injury list: hamstring, 1 week​
4/6 VFL bye (R10) would be this week if not for the bye​
7/6 will come back from a hamstring in the VFL next week​
12/6 not selected for VFL (R11)
15/6 R13 injury list: back, 1 week to go, R13 preview: back, 1 week​
19/6 returns from a hamstring in the VFL (R12) after missing 2 months with a hamstring. comes into senior calculations per development coach. "promising return to the VFL last week." gotta play a few more to get confidence in his body.​
25/6 VFL (R13)​
2/7 VFL bye (R14)​
10/7 VFL (R15)​
14/7 has played 4 VFL games this year, pre-season knee issue and 2 hamstring strains (possibly wrong date?)​
16/7 VFL (R16), pretty good for us in VFL, stringing together a number of games - VFL coach, strong VFL performance. last 2 games for the reserves pretty good. another 2-3 weeks away before senior contention but stiff competition to get a game. - Hird + dev coach​
24/7 hamstring, not available for VFL (R17)
30/7 VFL bye (R18) may or may not have played​
3/8 R20 injury list: back, 1 week, R20 preview: back, test
6/8 VFL (R19)​
13/8 VFL (R20), could be in contention - Twomey​
20/8 didn't play VFL (R21) to make sure we're looking after his body - Hird
25/8 nearing a return, has played 2 games in reserves after re-injuring his hamstring "about 6 weeks ago". moving really well at training will play this week but probably in the reserves. - Hird​
27/8 VFL (R22) end of the season​
10/10 "had a few setbacks this year, got his body right"​

2012 – 6 AFL games, 6 VFL games
18/11 back spasms, surgery needed, "a lot of scarring around the site of the previous operation and a problem with another disc" "trapped a nerve" "should be back running in 6 weeks"
24/12 surgery was successful, but still 3 months from full fitness​
10/2 Long term injury listed (min. 8 weeks): "Gumbleton had back surgery last November and is progressing well on a modified training program." "We are very keen to make sure we rehab Scott properly and give him every chance when he does come back so he is able to play consecutive games,” Hamilton said."​
27/3 back, LTI list​
13/4 R3 preview vs GC: injury listed as 'back'​
4/5 R6 preview vs BL: 'test'​
15/5 likely to play after recovering from back surgery (6 months ago)​
19/5 VFL (R9) returns from back surgery, first game of the year. Physically ready for a few weeks but held back by conditioning staff. 3-4 weeks then seniors​
2/6 VFL (R10) 3 goals against Williamstown, everyone excited about him getting back in the mix at Bomberland​
10/6 VFL (R11)​
16/6 VFL (R12)​
23/6 VFL (R13) Minor concussion, ~12 stitches. VFL bye following week. "5 VFL matches this year so far."
30/6 VFL bye (R14) would've missed with concussion​
8/7 VFL (R15) After AFL game coach considering promoting him​
14/7-12/8 Rounds 16-20​
12/8 R20 – subbed out
18/8 R21 – omitted, "soreness"​
24/8 Round 22​
1/9 missed Round 23, "soreness"
12/9-19/10 re-signing stuff, did a medical at Freo but stayed​

2013 – 7 AFL games, 8 VFL games, avail. 4 weeks no VFL
8/12 hamstring, restricted until January
18/2 "returned in January then pulled up sore and has been on a modified program. Should be right for Richmond game."
2/3 missed NAB cup R2 match (Richmond game)​
8/3 missed NAB cup R3 match​
15/3 VFL practice match, 5 goals, physically ready​
22/3 missed Round 1/no VFL​
29/3 no game split Round 1 both comps​
5/4 VFL (R1)​
13/4 VFL (R2)​
20/4 Round 4​
25/4 Round 5​
4/5 Round 6​
10/5 Round 7 <VFL bye>​
18/5 Round 8 "rested due to risk of injury as indicated by high performance team" - Hird
25/5 VFL (R7)​
1/6 Round 10​
7/6 Round 11 missed due to an ankle
16/6 VFL (R10)​
22/6 VFL bye (R11) "bat so deep Bellchambers and Gumbleton can't get a game"​
29/6 VFL (R12) 5 goals against Werribee​
7/7 VFL (R13)​
14/7 VFL bye, not selected in AFL​
21/7 VFL (R14) on the fringe of selection - Twomey​
27/7 VFL (R15)​
4/8 Round 19​
11/8 Round 20 corkie early in the game​
17/8 R21 didn't play at either level
24/8 R22 injury list: hamstring, test​
31/8 R23 injury list: "soreness", test​
Traded​

2014 – played 0 games (Fremantle)
22/1 training with Pav, everything good etc​
4/2 hasn't missed a session over pre-season unless we make him rest​
26/2 torn right hamstring during nab challenge (12 weeks, really 15+ weeks)
1/3 hamstring, will miss 12 weeks​
23/4 R6 injury list: hamstring, 7 weeks​
5/5 sidelined with a hamstring injury​
27/5 can't wait to pull on Peel jumper in 2-3 weeks​
7/6 WAFL (R11)​
14/6 WAFL (R12)​
21/6 WAFL (R13)​
28/6 WAFL (R14)​
5/7 WAFL (R15)​
12/7 named in the WAFL (R16), withdrawn back injury
19/7 WAFL (R17)​
26/7 Peel bye WAFL (R18)​
29/7 injury report: back (test)
31/7 R19 injury list: calf?​
1/8 named in the WAFL (R21)​
2/8 withdrawn from WAFL (R21), leg soft-tissue injury, sent for scans (missed a month)
5/8 injury list: hamstring, 3 weeks​
12/8 injury list: hamstring, 2-3 weeks​
19/8 injury list: hamstring, 2 weeks​
26/8 injury list: hamstring, 2 weeks​
1/9 Retired​
Due for a minor knee operation

Couple of things I notice here:
  • The first knee injury happened in his very first pre-season and was probably pre-existing, followed by a second one in his second season.
  • He had 3 hamstring injuries in his first 2 years at the club. They started within months of arriving.
  • His back issue was identified in the third year of his AFL career, it involved a bulging disc and surgery, and then further surgery in his sixth year to correct scarring another bulging disc, and an impeded nerve.

Back stress fractures, bulging discs and the need for surgery are not mutually inclusive. I did a bit of reading about it, so the below is paraphrased:


orthoinfo.aaos.org

Spondylolysis and Spondylolisthesis - OrthoInfo - AAOS

Spondylolysis (spon-dee-low-lye-sis) and spondylolisthesis (spon-dee-low-lis-thee-sis) are common causes of low back pain in children and adolescents who participate in sports that involve repeated stress on the lower back—such as gymnastics, football, and weight lifting.
orthoinfo.aaos.org orthoinfo.aaos.org

I think from this we can deduce that what Gumby had was one of the most severe versions of spondylolisthesis, because we know that it involved two discs, nerves and required two surgeries. That is what we might call his back was already totally ****ed by his 3rd season.

Plenty of players have had spondylolysis and have been treated conservatively with rest and management. Once it heals, they go on to have long careers with no related issues other than a bit of atrophy, lack of mobility and uneven conditioning immediately after the period of rest required for the spine to heal.

Ridley had them, Josh Dunkley had them, Jack Crisp had them, Phil Davis had them...

Hopefully this latest group of back stress fractures at the club are ordinary spondylolysis and don't require any surgery.
Click to expand...
Sack Quinn
 

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Traded #3: Scott Gumbleton - Traded to Fremantle for pick 55

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