2008 PDFL split

[themagicfrog]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Being a fan of Bigfooty I’m someone who likes to have a read of all the rumors and bulls$%t that goes on here along with all the information relating to what going on. But what I think is pretty slack by the PDFL is that they don’t use their website or even Bigfooty to get out any information that is crucial to clubs so that people know what’s going on, they leave all the knowledge to be here say, based on what’s here.
It would be nice for the PDFL to utilize the resources provided to them by the VCFL to let the general public what’s going on so they can see were the process is at.
Sorry, That’s my bitch fro the day,

Berrigan to NW, gets my vote.

 

[smooth mover]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

With the grand finals what about going back to the old way (not meaning the old way of the pdfl either) of mixing up the finals venues each year & giving everyone a shot at the grandfinal (providing their facilities (seating around ground, netball courts, toilets etc) are up to scratch)? This will help give each club the oppurtunity to raise some more funds through the bar, canteen etc also put them on the map abit more to the supporters who dont go to these particular grounds during the year but do for finals!?

Also as we dont want to see any club fold our league should help throw back some support our way & give each club every chance to stay alive!

Should definately be 2 league medals as you couldn't fairly justify a winner between 2 seperate leageus!

Now hopefully the league can sort out these last few minor problems so we can all see where we're at for next year so we can get down to business & concentrate on what we're all here for & that is TO PLAY FOOTY! Come on 2009

 

[Charles Mac]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

With the splitting of the leagues there will surely have to be an interleague game between the northern and southern league just to keep the rivalries going.

Deni would be a great spot for the Granny in the northern league (un biased obviously). Our double header this year drew a bigger crowd than the barooga double header. Although i do like the idea of mixing the finals around.

 

[theintimidator]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Wouldn't have a problem with the NW granny at Strathy as you might not have so many ferals from the South East comp. at it.
Don't think Deni would be a good option as you would not have the drawing power of the Shepp crowds, nor is it a true representative of the average ground size played on during the year, leave it central to both leagues, and although it would add travel for some, would still give the greatest opportunity for people associated with both comps to attend and the greatest opportunity to draw upon the Shepparton population.
Strathy not wanting it would be a shame, maybe it needs to be proportioned a bit more to take the work load off the club holding the granny and all clubs lending a hand, don't mind the idea of all the clubs getting together the weekend before to have a working bee and a few frothy's, imagine this, working bee on the Sunday, stay around Strathy, Cobram that night , spend a day having a little fish on the Monday and then off to the league vote count the Monday night. Might spark the vote count up to
As for the S/E comp. return it to Katunga for the same reasons mentioned above, average ground size , is located centrally to both leagues and within close proximaty to the nearest large city. Shepp East ground is a nice surface but is round , not comparitive to other grounds .

I agree that the grand finals should be as central to whole 2 leagues as possible to get the best crowds so strathy and katunga would be obvious considering facilities and parking etc. Katty I believe have new clubrooms on the way not sure when though but they coulsd be an option in the fut. What I will say is that any club considering taking on a grand final should get some sort of assurance form the PDFL that the security that the PDFL provides for the event is up to scratch after what happened last year. Also the host club should get more out of the day than just the lollie shop for the work that goes into it.

 

[TTTT]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

With the splitting of the leagues there will surely have to be an interleague game between the northern and southern league just to keep the rivalries going.

Deni would be a great spot for the Granny in the northern league (un biased obviously). Our double header this year drew a bigger crowd than the barooga double header. Although i do like the idea of mixing the finals around.

had heard there was going to be an interleague game between the 2 comps, would be an interesting game but would think SE comp would be stronger and have better quality players to choose from

 

[Herb]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

had heard there was going to be an interleague game between the 2 comps, would be an interesting game but would think SE comp would be stronger and have better quality players to choose from

Definitely need to have an inter-league game each year. Would be very interesting and at least bring back a bit of representative footy. I’m sure that most of the players would be right behind the idea too.

 

[Charles Mac]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

I reckon the interleague game would be alot closer than some people think. I just tried to write out a northern league rep side, based on players from last year, and it looked pretty good. Had trouble fitting people in and also who some people are. Only playing against sides once a year makes it hard to know who the better players are on a regular basis. Anyone want to give it a go ?? sides from the north and south ??

 

[smooth mover]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

had heard there was going to be an interleague game between the 2 comps, would be an interesting game but would think SE comp would be stronger and have better quality players to choose from

By looking at the clubs in each league you would think that straight of the bat there TTTT, but when you have a real good think about it the league with 16 teams was pretty even as in having a few quality players in each team so now with the split i'd say that you could still provide 21 decent players from each league (should be 22 i think just to give 1 more player the chance to rep his league) with a few 2 still miss out!

Ever since I've heard about the split months ago i thought straight away that there should be an interleague game between the 2 just as others have said to keep some sort of rivalries between the old league! Great idea I think if I must say so myself!!! ha ha ha

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Can anybody tell me why ?

A deleg/releg system over a three year period wouldn't work and wasn't considered, cause all the clubs that are alledgedly looking at changing comps. or launching legal action have the one concern, their ability to maintain competitiveness in the Southern Comp.
Funny enough they are also the 5/6 clubs that releg. and dele. would assist the most, the rest of the clubs, based on the past 10 years, wouldn't be effected and would remain in the same comp. Surely clubs aren't that sensitive that it has not been supported because they don't won't to be in a comp. called div. 2 or because it was first suggested on a internet forum ?

Why wasn't the proposal of the old Picola league versus the new( Tungamah league and others) ala iwantanotherflag's intial suggestion, put forward, all the clubs that won't change appear to be wanting it to head that way, seems easy enough ?

Where to from here, clubs now oppose the split and vote against it or get an injunction/ ruling whatever, what is then stopping clubs from then pursuing legal action over that ruling or whatever as it has already been voted and passed on for the split to happen. ?



Honestly PDFL executive , get an independent body in and sort out this mess before it totally ruins a lot of clubs, cause let me re-assure you all, oppossing leagues clubs are rubbing their hands together and are in contact with a number of our players frequently at the moment and this effects every club.

This current mess is dragging more friction between clubs when it could have and should have be solved a long time ago, the clubs who are now oppossing the split are the ones who are naturally trying to avoid the exact same thing happening to them which has happened to clubs that have , or are, seen as on the verge of collapse, and that is long term in-competitiveness, of which they rightfully shouldn't be dis-couraged from doing.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Please dont respond to my previous post about relegation/promotion with the old " It doesn't take into account the juniors and netball " without giving some evidence that the currently proposed split has taken in to account the juniors and netball, in particular the amount of clubs, in the one comp., which haven't been able to fill a A grade netball side at some stage over the last 4-5 years.

 

[MrsKenGriffeySnr]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Please dont respond to my previous post about relegation/promotion with the old " It doesn't take into account the juniors and netball " without giving some evidence that the currently proposed split has taken in to account the juniors and netball, in particular the amount of clubs, in the one comp., which haven't been able to fill a A grade netball side at some stage over the last 4-5 years.

PTF, I have no concern with the split. I think that a country league with 17-18 teams in un-viable. I also think that the split should take into account geography and town demographics rather than senior football performance over the last 2 years.
In regard to relegation/promotion, I agree that clubs that struggle as a whole for 2-4 years should go down a level and vice versa. This should occur across the state. My concern with relegation/promotion was if Murray League was included with the two PDFL leagues in a regular 3 division promotion/relegation. And also if it occurred every year based on the ladder position of the seniors, as occurs in the Amateurs. I think this would mean a strong club (think Cobram, Mulwala) could have one bad year in the seniors, finish in the bottom two, only to find themselves in a lower league where they dominate in all grades the next year against all comers. Or on the other hand, a tiny town (like Blighty) could win the senior premiership and then find that the next year they are getting flogged in all grades every week....

 

[theintimidator]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

PTF, I have no concern with the split. I think that a country league with 17-18 teams in un-viable. I also think that the split should take into account geography and town demographics rather than senior football performance over the last 2 years.
In regard to relegation/promotion, I agree that clubs that struggle as a whole for 2-4 years should go down a level and vice versa. This should occur across the state. My concern with relegation/promotion was if Murray League was included with the two PDFL leagues in a regular 3 division promotion/relegation. And also if it occurred every year based on the ladder position of the seniors, as occurs in the Amateurs. I think this would mean a strong club (think Cobram, Mulwala) could have one bad year in the seniors, finish in the bottom two, only to find themselves in a lower league where they dominate in all grades the next year against all comers. Or on the other hand, a tiny town (like Blighty) could win the senior premiership and then find that the next year they are getting flogged in all grades every week....

As already mentioned earlier could a club championship based promotion relegation work in trying to keep the whole club competitive???

 

[Charles Mac]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

It works in the Ammos because there is very little or no player payments. It would be impossible for smaller clubs to compete financially with the murray league clubs. Clubs like Katunga, Picola even Waaia with a budget of 40-50K a year (a rough guess but close i reckon) cannot match it with clubs in the murray league with a budget of 90-100K, which is what i would reckon alot of the major league clubs would budget for. Dont think a dereg \ promo would work, just make it an option for struggling teams to drop down and successful ones come up IF THEY WANT TO. Not made to by a league commettee.

 

[theintimidator]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

It works in the Ammos because there is very little or no player payments. It would be impossible for smaller clubs to compete financially with the murray league clubs. Clubs like Katunga, Picola even Waaia with a budget of 40-50K a year (a rough guess but close i reckon) cannot match it with clubs in the murray league with a budget of 90-100K, which is what i would reckon alot of the major league clubs would budget for. Dont think a dereg \ promo would work, just make it an option for struggling teams to drop down and successful ones come up IF THEY WANT TO. Not made to by a league commettee.

But thats exactly the point the weaker PDFL clubs wouldnt have to compete with the murry league clubs. For example.

Div 1 made up of top 10 MFL Clubs
Div 2 Made up of bottom 3 MFL and top 7 Picola Clubs
Div 3 Made up of bottom 10 PDFL clubs

Start it of like that and see what happens, every 3rd year do the promotion and relegation based on the clubs overall performance i:e club championship.

 

[Charles Mac]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

But thats exactly the point the weaker PDFL clubs wouldnt have to compete with the murry league clubs. For example.

Div 1 made up of top 10 MFL Clubs
Div 2 Made up of bottom 3 MFL and top 7 Picola Clubs
Div 3 Made up of bottom 10 PDFL clubs

Start it of like that and see what happens, every 3rd year do the promotion and relegation based on the clubs overall performance i:e club championship.

The structure you have there is spot on. 10 in the Murray league, 10 in the "tunga league" and 10 in the PDFL. The only sticking point i have it that i feel a club shouldnt be made to go up or down a league as there may be many factors to why a club is or isnt sucessful over a certain time period. ie. If Strathy were to win the next 2 flags and the club as a whole is going well but then they have 2-3 people retire and then the 3-4 uni kids that have been travelling back from Bendigo get jobs in Melb, that will bring the club back to the field a little. Promoting them up a league would make them uncompetitive and hurt the club as a whole. Obviously this situation is hypothetical as i was only using Starthy as an expample but i hope you get my point. To win a couple of Flags or be close to winning a couple of flags then get promoted up a league and continue to be competitive to the point of some success is a long time to have your club up and going. Deni Rams are a great example. They spent 6 years in the Grand Final to win 4 flags, which is a great run and a long time at the top. They now over the last 3-4 seasons are having their lean period.
Is a good topic for discussion though. Can argue both sides til the cows come home. Hopefully all decisions are made in the best interest for all clubs in the area not just those who make the most noise, which unfortunatly i feel is happening at the moment.

 

[sparra]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

The structure you have there is spot on. 10 in the Murray league, 10 in the "tunga league" and 10 in the PDFL. The only sticking point i have it that i feel a club shouldnt be made to go up or down a league as there may be many factors to why a club is or isnt sucessful over a certain time period. ie. If Strathy were to win the next 2 flags and the club as a whole is going well but then they have 2-3 people retire and then the 3-4 uni kids that have been travelling back from Bendigo get jobs in Melb, that will bring the club back to the field a little. Promoting them up a league would make them uncompetitive and hurt the club as a whole. Obviously this situation is hypothetical as i was only using Starthy as an expample but i hope you get my point. To win a couple of Flags or be close to winning a couple of flags then get promoted up a league and continue to be competitive to the point of some success is a long time to have your club up and going. Deni Rams are a great example. They spent 6 years in the Grand Final to win 4 flags, which is a great run and a long time at the top. They now over the last 3-4 seasons are having their lean period.
Is a good topic for discussion though. Can argue both sides til the cows come home. Hopefully all decisions are made in the best interest for all clubs in the area not just those who make the most noise, which unfortunatly i feel is happening at the moment.

I would think the MFL would want little to do with the PDFL unlesss they wanted to drop a club back (Finley at the moment, and how much longer can Toc hang in there). I couldn't see any PDFL clubs becoming strong enough, or wanting to step up, Rumbalara were a different proposition with there various schemes available.
New entries into the MFL would have to come from GV as was Tongala.
For these reasons I would be leaving the MFL out of the equation.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Promotion and relegation should not involve the Murray league for two very important reasons, the top MFL junior sides who may very well end up against are bottom sides are a long way in front, secondly financially, a few Murray league clubs have been suggested to have spent 100k repeatedly for 5-6 years and not played finals, I don't believe any PDFL could continually afford that sort of money.

Some may recall that I did up a splitting of the league based on premiership points of the A grade and senior football over the past 3 years, a little while ago which had Mathoura in the top competition, and I am not affraid to say the club could not survive in that competition more than 2 years.
Not against, and certainly appreciate , the netball and junior side of football clubs, but sponsorship, crowds and attendance to functions ,which inturn dictates turnover, is based on the success of a clubs senior football side and therefore think that promotion and relegation should be based on that.

 

[Charles Mac]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Still dont agree with the promotion and degregulation, but as i said it is a good topic to talk about. I think we all must remember that country footy is pretty good footy no matter what league you play in. It is the old major league v's minor league bulls#it again. Ive played successful major league footy and successful minor league footy and there isnt much difference in my opinion. If you are a bits player inthe murray league you will still me a middle of the range player in the PDFL and other minor leagues. Good players in the PDFL will be good players in the Murray League etc. I Just think that if a club in classified as a Divison 2 or a Division 3 club then it makes it even harder to recuit players.
Stick with how it is, suck it and see. If in 2 years time one team is killing the northern comp then give them the OPTION to go to the southern comp. And vice versa. I think we need to remember why we play footy in the country. The contest between you and your opponent, mate ship, the good old rivalries and a beer after the game. With all that has been going on i think we forget this.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Still dont agree with the promotion and degregulation, but as i said it is a good topic to talk about. I think we all must remember that country footy is pretty good footy no matter what league you play in. It is the old major league v's minor league bulls#it again. Ive played successful major league footy and successful minor league footy and there isnt much difference in my opinion. If you are a bits player inthe murray league you will still me a middle of the range player in the PDFL and other minor leagues. Good players in the PDFL will be good players in the Murray League etc. I Just think that if a club in classified as a Divison 2 or a Division 3 club then it makes it even harder to recuit players.
Stick with how it is, suck it and see. If in 2 years time one team is killing the northern comp then give them the OPTION to go to the southern comp. And vice versa. I think we need to remember why we play footy in the country. The contest between you and your opponent, mate ship, the good old rivalries and a beer after the game. With all that has been going on i think we forget this.

Thats fine to say Charles, but the problem is past history, amongst a lot of organisations, suggests that if it is not clearly stipulated and set out within the constitution, or bylaws, in the first place it is open for interpretation and innuendo at a later date.

All clubs need protection against the inabiltity to compete long term within this league, as there is some big differences within populations and social and employment enviroments and a change in whether or economical conditions may significantly advantange or dissadvantage some sides more than others.

I don't totally disagree with the teams that have been grouped together within the currently proposed split although I still think , Jerilderie and Katunga should be swapped, however I also fully understand the concern from the 5-6 sides who wish to strive to play against the best sides within the South East comp., and believe they can at the moment,yet are concerned about being able to maintain it over a long time frame to the detriment of their club.
When a decision, which ultimately will determine the future of a lot of clubs and therefore communties, is to be made and there is a possible solution which encourages sides to strive to be better, yet also protects sides from being uncompetitive, surely that option should be explored.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Being a fan of Bigfooty I’m someone who likes to have a read of all the rumors and bulls$%t that goes on here along with all the information relating to what going on. But what I think is pretty slack by the PDFL is that they don’t use their website or even Bigfooty to get out any information that is crucial to clubs so that people know what’s going on, they leave all the knowledge to be here say, based on what’s here.
It would be nice for the PDFL to utilize the resources provided to them by the VCFL to let the general public what’s going on so they can see were the process is at.
Sorry, That’s my bitch fro the day,

Berrigan to NW, gets my vote.

Magic you might like to know, apparently the 6 clubs who have entered submissions to the league over the recently voted on split, will be meeting with the executive tonight to air their concerns and the executive will then make a final decision on how the league is to be split.
I have heard the six are :
Waaia, Katunga, Wunghnu, Picola, Yarroweyah and Berrigan.
Interestingly, I would think that normally the annual general meeting for the league would have been done by this time of year, and given that it is rumoured there a large part of the executive will be different faces and the incoming board/executive will be the ones handling the comp. split which is being decided upon, I would have thought they would have significant input on the decisions which are being made ??

 

[GrassKat]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

All clubs have their cycles. From 1996 - 2002, Katandra only made the finals a couple of times (one did net a premiership). Tungamah & Katamatite have been up and down over the last decade. Dookie United have had on premiership in 30 years and have had many years as a cellar dweller and struggled to fill 3rds teams (going back 5 years or so).

There is no question that the South East comp is looked upon as being stronger (on 2008 stats) but again it is all cyclical. The only club that has been a perennial power since I have been involved in the PDFL would be Waaia, interestingly their juniors have not had the success of other clubs but the kids that do come through hang around and keep the Bombers in the mix year in, year out. The message is turn your junior footballers into senior footballers and make sure they hang around, a job that will be so much easier when the travel factor is addressed (as the split does)

PS Swap Strathy with Berrigan and leave the rest as proposed.

 

[smooth mover]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

All clubs have their cycles. From 1996 - 2002, Katandra only made the finals a couple of times (one did net a premiership). Tungamah & Katamatite have been up and down over the last decade. Dookie United have had on premiership in 30 years and have had many years as a cellar dweller and struggled to fill 3rds teams (going back 5 years or so).

There is no question that the South East comp is looked upon as being stronger (on 2008 stats) but again it is all cyclical. The only club that has been a perennial power since I have been involved in the PDFL would be Waaia, interestingly their juniors have not had the success of other clubs but the kids that do come through hang around and keep the Bombers in the mix year in, year out. The message is turn your junior footballers into senior footballers and make sure they hang around, a job that will be so much easier when the travel factor is addressed (as the split does)

PS Swap Strathy with Berrigan and leave the rest as proposed.

So are we all trying to make the northern comp weaker & the southern comp stronger?? Leave all teams as is if rennie get in the southern comp then put berrigan in the northern comp, 9 teams v 8 teams is perfect for now! Let it run for atleast 2yrs, lets get on with our job of playin footy & hopefully if the league commitee have got their heads switched on the leagues will sort themselves out without to much fuss!!!

 

[theintimidator]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Magic you might like to know, apparently the 6 clubs who have entered submissions to the league over the recently voted on split, will be meeting with the executive tonight to air their concerns and the executive will then make a final decision on how the league is to be split.
I have heard the six are :
Waaia, Katunga, Wunghnu, Picola, Yarroweyah and Berrigan.
Interestingly, I would think that normally the annual general meeting for the league would have been done by this time of year, and given that it is rumoured there a large part of the executive will be different faces and the incoming board/executive will be the ones handling the comp. split which is being decided upon, I would have thought they would have significant input on the decisions which are being made ??

Have you heard anything RE: the outcome of the the above mentioned meeting?

 

[jetter18]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Havent heard anything official but have heard that Berrigan's application to join the South league was approved and the rest will remain the same for next year. So 9 teams in South comp and 8 in North comp.

 

[Charles Mac]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Havent heard anything official but have heard that Berrigan's application to join the South league was approved and the rest will remain the same for next year. So 9 teams in South comp and 8 in North comp.

The other way round... Berrigan's application to join the northern league was granted. Strathy's players voted to stay in the northern league (which is a good idea) and Yarra's application to join the southern league was not granted. That leaves 9 teams in the northern league and 8 in the south. Looking at that i would say that there will be a final 5 in the north and a final 4 in the south. I really hope the league can schedule a general bye into both leagues over the queen's birthday long weekend and have a north v's south interleague game. Reckon it would be like a grand final atmosphere with a huge crowd.