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The war against renewable energy
- Thread starter Upton Sinclair
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Mar 16, 2002
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- Mar 16, 2002
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The grid when it needs it.. it’s called power shifting. It does it automatically …
Those massive peaks predicted didn’t eventuate, so I basically broke even.
Climate council is calling on people to transition from gas to electric.
In my workplace this is on our agenda too. But right NOW in Victoria, its better for CO2 emissions to use gas for heating than it is to use electric.
If you have enough solar, YES, if AEMO gets a better renewable mix YES.
But unless the above is true, gas is around 0.2 kg/CO2kwh compared to 0.9 kg/CO2 kwh for victorian electricity.
Simpletons.
In my workplace this is on our agenda too. But right NOW in Victoria, its better for CO2 emissions to use gas for heating than it is to use electric.
If you have enough solar, YES, if AEMO gets a better renewable mix YES.
But unless the above is true, gas is around 0.2 kg/CO2kwh compared to 0.9 kg/CO2 kwh for victorian electricity.
Simpletons.
In 1791, people in the colony of New South Wales started using coal for domestic heating and by 1799, coal was being exported out of Newcastle to India.
In 1921, a commercial coal fired power station began operation in the La Trobe Valley, Victoria. Since then, Australia has been powered, in the most part, by coal and towns, cities and communities became established around these coal mining areas as well as around coal fired power stations.
To get to net zero by 2050 we will need about 10,000 km of new transmission wiring ( The Australian reckons 100,000 kms but they can never be taken seriously). It's estimated that at the current rate, instead of having completed 4,200 kms by 2030, we will have completed only 3,000 kms. We will need the new 10,000 km transmission lines to deliver about 9 times the large-scale renewable energy generation we now have. This will require over 220% of the current work force to deliver this infrastructure.
The purpose of the above is to present the enormity of the task ahead of us to get to net zero and a clean future. It is not an overnight project, it’s gargantuan and completely changes everything that has been put in place for over 100 years!
We must consider the consequences and upheavals in areas and communities that have been living a certain way for generations and what we must ensure, is that they are brought along in this massive reconstruction. Not to do so, will create massive dislocation and angst because of the fear of the unknown. If communities know what is going on and they feel engaged in this transformation, then it will be far, far easier to get to the clean future we must achieve.
This brings us to the city and urban dwellers where the conversation about net zero and the phasing out of fossil fuels is somewhat different to those in regional and rural areas, different to those whose families have lived in communities that have been built around ancient, fossil fuel extraction and energy production. Where the citycentric population view the complete and immediate cessation of fossil fuel energy generation as a crusade, the people in the regional areas whose lives were built around these ancient technologies, they see the immediate cessation of fossil fuel energy generation and extraction as the destruction of their lives!
City dwellers tend to view the elimination of fossil fuels in a rather romanticised manner, that is, stop all fossil fuel extraction now and stop producing energy from fossil fuels now and everything will be fantastic! No thought of the actual ramifications if there is no orderly and systemic transition to complete renewables let alone how long this process will take – nope, just do it now and miraculously, we will all live in a clean, renewable powered paradise forever more.
This is as deluded and ignorant as is the ignorance of those who see renewables as some kind of evil, worldwide conspiracy to plunge us all into darkness. What both of these cohorts share is a lack of objectivity.
In the early stages of establishing renewables as the primary, principal source of energy, there will necessarily be gaps in the production and transmission of energy that will make using energy unreliable and erratic. It will cause huge disruption to people’s lives, to the running of industry and business and it must be avoided. The only way to do this, is through an orderly and sensible transition which is going to take time.
Initially, we will have to use fossil fuels to fill these gaps with the intention of eradicating most, if not all use of fossil fuels to generate the energy requirements of the nation. Of all the readily available, reliable sources of energy that we have at hand and which is the most environmentally friendly is gas. It emits 50% less CO2 than coal and as a transition source of energy, considering we are built on the stuff and that we will need it to produce hydrogen in the future, it’s a no brainer. Unfortunately, those whose brain is permanently fixed at half mast just don’t get it, they don’t understand that it is a necessary short-term evil.
When we eventually draw our energy from renewables almost exclusively, we must have an insurance policy, so to speak, if something drastic happens as a backup and again, that must be natural gas.
AEMO says that gas plants will not be used as day-in, day-out generators, but as an infrequently used backup to ensure the grid stays reliable and secure.
Utopia is not attainable; nature does not allow it and that is why Albanese’s frank and honest admission that gas will be around until 2050 and beyond should be applauded. It’s not as if the sun will stop shining or the wind will stop blowing but when mother nature unleashes her ferocity, when all of her destructive power is on show, nothing gets in her way, nothing can resist her – not massive arrays of solar panels nor batteries nor the sturdiest of sturdy wind turbines. Why would we not safeguard ourselves from such destruction when we have the tools and mechanisms to do so?
We need to be patient and stoic to get to net zero and a clean future and we can only do this, by being level-headed and composed, not hysterical and trying to play politics.
In 1921, a commercial coal fired power station began operation in the La Trobe Valley, Victoria. Since then, Australia has been powered, in the most part, by coal and towns, cities and communities became established around these coal mining areas as well as around coal fired power stations.
To get to net zero by 2050 we will need about 10,000 km of new transmission wiring ( The Australian reckons 100,000 kms but they can never be taken seriously). It's estimated that at the current rate, instead of having completed 4,200 kms by 2030, we will have completed only 3,000 kms. We will need the new 10,000 km transmission lines to deliver about 9 times the large-scale renewable energy generation we now have. This will require over 220% of the current work force to deliver this infrastructure.
The purpose of the above is to present the enormity of the task ahead of us to get to net zero and a clean future. It is not an overnight project, it’s gargantuan and completely changes everything that has been put in place for over 100 years!
We must consider the consequences and upheavals in areas and communities that have been living a certain way for generations and what we must ensure, is that they are brought along in this massive reconstruction. Not to do so, will create massive dislocation and angst because of the fear of the unknown. If communities know what is going on and they feel engaged in this transformation, then it will be far, far easier to get to the clean future we must achieve.
This brings us to the city and urban dwellers where the conversation about net zero and the phasing out of fossil fuels is somewhat different to those in regional and rural areas, different to those whose families have lived in communities that have been built around ancient, fossil fuel extraction and energy production. Where the citycentric population view the complete and immediate cessation of fossil fuel energy generation as a crusade, the people in the regional areas whose lives were built around these ancient technologies, they see the immediate cessation of fossil fuel energy generation and extraction as the destruction of their lives!
City dwellers tend to view the elimination of fossil fuels in a rather romanticised manner, that is, stop all fossil fuel extraction now and stop producing energy from fossil fuels now and everything will be fantastic! No thought of the actual ramifications if there is no orderly and systemic transition to complete renewables let alone how long this process will take – nope, just do it now and miraculously, we will all live in a clean, renewable powered paradise forever more.
This is as deluded and ignorant as is the ignorance of those who see renewables as some kind of evil, worldwide conspiracy to plunge us all into darkness. What both of these cohorts share is a lack of objectivity.
In the early stages of establishing renewables as the primary, principal source of energy, there will necessarily be gaps in the production and transmission of energy that will make using energy unreliable and erratic. It will cause huge disruption to people’s lives, to the running of industry and business and it must be avoided. The only way to do this, is through an orderly and sensible transition which is going to take time.
Initially, we will have to use fossil fuels to fill these gaps with the intention of eradicating most, if not all use of fossil fuels to generate the energy requirements of the nation. Of all the readily available, reliable sources of energy that we have at hand and which is the most environmentally friendly is gas. It emits 50% less CO2 than coal and as a transition source of energy, considering we are built on the stuff and that we will need it to produce hydrogen in the future, it’s a no brainer. Unfortunately, those whose brain is permanently fixed at half mast just don’t get it, they don’t understand that it is a necessary short-term evil.
When we eventually draw our energy from renewables almost exclusively, we must have an insurance policy, so to speak, if something drastic happens as a backup and again, that must be natural gas.
AEMO says that gas plants will not be used as day-in, day-out generators, but as an infrequently used backup to ensure the grid stays reliable and secure.
Utopia is not attainable; nature does not allow it and that is why Albanese’s frank and honest admission that gas will be around until 2050 and beyond should be applauded. It’s not as if the sun will stop shining or the wind will stop blowing but when mother nature unleashes her ferocity, when all of her destructive power is on show, nothing gets in her way, nothing can resist her – not massive arrays of solar panels nor batteries nor the sturdiest of sturdy wind turbines. Why would we not safeguard ourselves from such destruction when we have the tools and mechanisms to do so?
We need to be patient and stoic to get to net zero and a clean future and we can only do this, by being level-headed and composed, not hysterical and trying to play politics.
- Mar 16, 2002
- 21,850
- 13,549
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Richmond
Snowy CEO saying Snowy 2 still on target for December 2028…
This is a significant step for renewables … and will secure a large portion of the grid, combined with strategically placed large scale batteries the need for back up fossil fuel generators will be minimal.
Mother nature can also throw us a week of still, drizzly, overcast weather, which can also play havoc with renewables.
Unfortunately rather than the sensible model of "Gas for Backup" we exported a lot of the gas.
At the moment there is very little gas being used for electricity generation. Lots of coal though.
( Coal is around double the CO2 of normal gas, and around 4 times that of efficient gas ).
- Mar 16, 2002
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Yep it will be a game changer and even if the costs blow out to 20billion it will still be a bargain long term.. coupled with more and more battery storage, by 2030, SE Australia will be using very little Coal.
Having back up gas generators will still be needed occasionally.
This negativity on the cost of upgrading the grid is just pure muck raking by the fossils in the fossil industry trying to cling onto the very last days of coal.
Upgrading the grid will increase the future capacity of solar and open up a lot of unused solar.
3.5 million households have solar with most capped at 5kw solar exports… upgrading the grid will hopefully unlock massive amounts of this unused solar.
According to Aristotle Pickett it's the AFL's fault.
- Oct 19, 2020
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No, but they could lead instead of follow. Their atakeholders include millions of supporters.
'Lead'? they're a sporting organization, not a govt. body.
Your take on the AFL 'doing more (when they're not anyway) to prevent climate change' is idealistic - at best.
Your irrational progressive views are showing.
- Oct 19, 2020
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You're wrong. The AFL reflects moderm values in case you haven't noticed.
'Modern values'? It's a sports league ffs.
It's not an advocacy group, as much as you want it to be.
- Oct 19, 2020
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It's a sports league with millions of supporters who will feel the wrath of climate change. There's a duty of care as there is with homophobia, misogyny and racism. Why can you not see that?
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There's a duty of care on EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THE PLANET.
The AFL alone advocating won't do sh*t.
Again, your idea that the AFL can have real impact is highly idealistic.
- Oct 19, 2020
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Not really, the AFL has a mass audience and clearly has influence.
And that audience for the most part is only interested in the footy, climate change is a byproduct.
As predicted you think the AFL can have some sort of ground breaking influence on the wider fan base to commit to radical lifestyle changes in order to save the planet.
Idealistic, utopian, whatever you wanna call it.
no more night games?
- Oct 19, 2020
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Not utopian, it's called common sense. Common sense to stop an impending disaster . There's nothing utopian about cheaper power prices that don't emmitt massive anounts of carbon.
- Oct 19, 2020
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No that's fine with a renewable power source.
That would be ok if the grounds had their own renewable energy and batteries.
- Oct 19, 2020
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They will soon hopefully. Offshore wind is the next big thing.
