Toast Round 4 = Collingwood 77-72 Hawthorn

[Mick F]

A lot like the QF last year, an inspired 5-goal drive by the oppo in the last quarter while we hang on goalless in the last. To quote Fly from the docco, we just kick one early in that run about 5-10 minutes into Q4 and that game is just over, completely destroy their will/momentum.

Repeated it ad nauseum on here, most recently in the Brisbane gameday thread, but every single game this year we have given up a 4+ goal run. That's simply unacceptable and beyond forgiveness at this point with what it does to a game. In this case it turned a promising % booster into a slow choke. Understandably these waves of momentum are hard to stop and somewhat contributed by intangibles, 1%'s, etc, but going forward we need to have figured out some way to "call time out", completely stop the game for 5 or so minutes even if it means us not scoring either.

It appears we did this during the middle of Q4 last night, with Ginnis goal @ 6 min mark, then their next with Dyl Moore @ 20 min mark. We had two pings and misses at it in between that time from Reef and Bobby, the latter of the two should have easily been a mark/set shot but was an uncharacteristic miss of a snap kick for him - intangibles. They then go coast to coast from the kickout and goal. Any of those result in a goal, particularly that last, and the game is more than over and we go home 20+ point victors.

We definitely did enough in the first half to justify a winning position at the end of the game, footy is like that sometimes and really an inaccurate 2nd half allowed the opposition to have belief and they took that with both hands. 9.4 to 2.7 - Sainters struggled with that just in reverse vs Tiges 1.8 early in Q3 the same afternoon. Taking our chances has really been the name of the game early this season and still seems to be the one other common sore point between all our games. Patches of inaccurate kicking at best, and inability to turn i50s into high % chance shots on goal at worst.

Also would've helped not turning a medium-backman into primetime Plugger.

Fine players take their chances. That is why they are fine players.

 

[BuildEmUp]

It always feels dodgy when you're copping frees against in the ruck - but Cox had lost the plot and just doing dumb things. Plus the Ginni one was just infuriating to put us into a negative mindset re the umps.

Ginni one , was a piss poor tackle from Lipinski .. didnt even try to go low went straight at his head , ( idiot) , Cox has no clue in the ruck this year , wrapped arms aroung hawks ruck neck, blciked, push in back etc still doesnt understand ruck rules, why the F%^&*(lk doesnt he just jump up, it would be 100% hitouts then, poorly coached IMHO

 

[sr36]

Ginni one , was a piss poor tackle from Lipinski .. didnt even try to go low went straight at his head , ( idiot) , Cox has no clue in the ruck this year , wrapped arms aroung hawks ruck neck, blciked, push in back etc still doesnt understand ruck rules, why the F%^&*(lk doesnt he just jump up, it would be 100% hitouts then, poorly coached IMHO

I meant the Maynard one, when it was actually Ginni holding Bruzzy rather than what the umpire paid.

 

[JuniorB]

It always feels dodgy when you're copping frees against in the ruck - but Cox had lost the plot and just doing dumb things. Plus the Ginni one was just infuriating to put us into a negative mindset re the umps.

At one point last week, Cox had taken a mark.
Instead of stopping and taking his kick, he played on without looking around and got pinged for holding.
Another example of Cox = dumb.

 

[loki04]

see this is what I meant 2011 not 2012

Yeah in 2011 we were one of the most dominant sides ever to play in afl according to percentage.

Only 1 team screwed that and MM refusal to move Tarrant onto Hawkins and leave an injured Reid to be smashed.

But the other poster was referring to 2012 that you responded to and in 2012 very early on you knew something wasn't right and although we made finals that was about all that was going to come of it.

 

[loki04]

I meant the Maynard one, when it was actually Ginni holding Bruzzy rather than what the umpire paid.

Ginni grabbed Maynard's jumper to hold him off and Maynard made the cardinal sin of grabbing Ginnivans wrist as he did it. Ump saw the reaction not the initial Ginni hold.

 

[loki04]

I’ve always wondered when we have posession after a mark or a free roughly 60 out from goal why we kick it long into a pocket or pull the kick slightly and drop it in front of the square. We seem to be seduced by Cox’s height but it’s rare he looks like marking it in these instances.
What would be the reason we don’t kick 15m and find an easy option 45m from goal. We are really good from that distance and to me it looks like a much easier option.

Cox is a good mark when he can run and jump up at the ball in space with no physical pressure on him.

But any body work or physical pack situations often see him pushed under the ball or out pointed. You would think they'd lock him in a squat rack and build up his body strength to allow for it and also refine his body work positioning and timing over the last 7 seasons wouldn't you...

 

[loki04]

The stupid frees when ruckman are wrestling are the worst. You can't see them and neither player knows who's free it is.

This is two 100kg monsters pushing each other. Just let it go!

It was adjudicated as ruck craft for so long, then AFL changed it to favour the athletic jumper as commentators whinged about forwards giving free kicks away for similar actions.

 

[pablo disco bar]

I was at game

Personally felt like hawthorn we're the real winners

 

[loki04]

As much as I liked Ginni when he was in Black & White and bear no grudge on him being a Hawthorn (or any other club for that matter), Ginni would be lucky enough to tie Cyril’s shoelaces they’re that far apart. Even if the commentators love him.

As much as it was only a so so game from him, he does have great timing to inspire his side with clean goals or even just a scuffle from being an annoying Lil pr which gets the adrenalin of team mates going.

 

[stormskye]

Our second half looked like a team that has played 5 games in 29 days including 3 interstate trips to bris, syd and adel.

 

[loki04]

I was at game

Personally felt like hawthorn we're the real winners

When last years premier limps over the line by a few points to the bottom 3 team there are always going to be positives for the lesser team.

Pies atm are clearly not playing well but keep ticking wins over will hopefully see the return of form and confidence (such a fragile thing).

 

[neilk]

He wasn't commentating on Kayo. Which broadcast?

My bad, may have gotten the games mixed up.

 

[Axl the great]

First half - fly coaching at its best.
Second half - must have taken the Tardis at half time and suddenly it was the worst of the Buckley years on display.
We changed our gameplan. Gone was the “get it into the corridor as fast as possible” and instead it was “slow the game down and kick long down the flanks”.
Horrible to watch.
Let’s be brutally honest. The loss of our on field leader hurt big time.
With how our playing ranks have aged has become a liability. We had 2 under 21’s to their 10 under 21’s. And that showed in the second half. Younger legs, more desire.
The structural problems we currently have cannot be solved overnight and I’m not sure if we have the depth of talents to take our game to the next level.
I’ll take the win, as it’s desperately needed, but the dream of BtoB is over.

I hate in game changes of strategy and game style.
We do it all the time, f you are hurting the opposition playing a certain way then keep going.
Changing your style lets your opponent often become more comfortable during a game as it’s different to what was making them uncomfortable.
Last night the slowing of our game dropped our pressure rating to below average from nearly elite in the first half.

 

[loki04]

Our second half looked like a team that has played 5 games in 29 days including 3 interstate trips to bris, syd and adel.

Have we ran out any game better then the opposition though? GWS and Syd definitely over ran us.

Maybe Brisbane but memory fails me in the last Q.
Last quarter scoring was level in the last 4.2 vs 4.2.

The first month people were saying it was the late start to preseason.
Now it's travel and breaks.

 

[stormskye]

When last years premier limps over the line by a few points to the bottom 3 team there are always going to be positives for the lesser team.

Pies atm are clearly not playing well but keep ticking wins over will hopefully see the return of form and confidence (such a fragile thing).

What’s keeping me optimistic is our best players are well down, but we know they can get better because we know their levels. Contrast that to players like Frampton, Cameron etc who are playing good footy. There’s improvement there for us.

There’s no doubt the fixture has had an effect. It’s been a joke.

The bye, reset and the game against port will tell us all where we sit

 

[The Royal Sampler]

He was good when he wasn't joining in on Dwayne Russell's pants-wetting

Imagine if the commentators were umpiring and the umpires commentating!

We would have been reasonably content with the call while losing by 12 goals…

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I am a huge supporter of Mason but he hasn’t hit the scoreboard in five games. The cupboard is seemingly entirely bare for alternatives. I’d like to see what comes of playing Moore in his old forward/ruck role.

As average as our defence has been, I think we have the pieces there to cover Moore’s utilisation elsewhere, particularly given Darcy has been average at best down there anyway. Dean or Markov possibilities to come in, and Howe as the main loose interceptor. It’s the only solution I’m seeing to our lack of tall options in attack.

If Murphy comes back, Moore can definitely play forward alongside Checkers because Frampton is killing it and Howe seems to be making his way back into some form

Shame Dean will take some more time in the oven and Eyre is still a while away

STILL can't believe we didn't take Sofronidis. Baffling decision

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Our second half looked like a team that has played 5 games in 29 days including 3 interstate trips to bris, syd and adel.

Sure, but 10-day break and it’s our fifth game of the season, it’s just looking for an explanation for what we’re seeing, because we don’t really have one.

 

[No SPIN]

At one point last week, Cox had taken a mark.
Instead of stopping and taking his kick, he played on without looking around and got pinged for holding.
Another example of Cox = dumb.

By that metric we have a lot of dumb footballers- it’s a dumb metric.

 

[sideswipe]

Cox is a good mark when he can run and jump up at the ball in space with no physical pressure on him.

But any body work or physical pack situations often see him pushed under the ball or out pointed. You would think they'd lock him in a squat rack and build up his body strength to allow for it and also refine his body work positioning and timing over the last 7 seasons wouldn't you...

He has been a full time athlete for over 10 years now. Not sure his body is going to suddenly change anytime soon...

 

[No SPIN]

As much as it was only a so so game from him, he does have great timing to inspire his side with clean goals or even just a scuffle from being an annoying Lil pr which gets the adrenalin of team mates going.

He had 2 goals from 2 frees - and how inspiring was he really? Given he was completely ineffectual and Mitchell needed to move Hardwick fwd to get back in the game.
Let’s not kid ourselves Ginnivan was ordinary.

 

[No SPIN]

Have we ran out any game better then the opposition though? GWS and Syd definitely over ran us.

Maybe Brisbane but memory fails me in the last Q.
Last quarter scoring was level in the last 4.2 vs 4.2.

The first month people were saying it was the late start to preseason.
Now it's travel and breaks.

Syd yes.
GWS we kicked very poorly.

 

[gouki88]

He has been a full time athlete for over 10 years now. Not sure his body is going to suddenly change anytime soon...

Slow twitch...

 

[sideswipe]

Slow twitch...

Maybe get the time sniper to do a twitch transplant over the bye.