Asia China's growing influence

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Despite the recent meeting of the PM and President Xi, we clearly are not close to being 'besties'. For some reason after reading the article the words - 'Beware of sonic attack' keep repeating in my head. 11 out of 10 to the PLAN for novelty.
www.smh.com.au

Australian navy divers injured after sonar pulses detected from Chinese warship

Defence Minister Richard Marles says there was an “unsafe” interaction between the HMAS Toowoomba and a People’s Liberation Army-Navy destroyer.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 
CD Xbow said:
Despite the recent meeting of the PM and President Xi, we clearly are not close to being 'besties'. For some reason after reading the article the words - 'Beware of sonic attack' keep repeating in my head. 11 out of 10 to the PLAN for novelty.
www.smh.com.au

Australian navy divers injured after sonar pulses detected from Chinese warship

Defence Minister Richard Marles says there was an “unsafe” interaction between the HMAS Toowoomba and a People’s Liberation Army-Navy destroyer.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
Click to expand...
Never trust anyone involved with the CCP or a Chinese company. They are the same
 

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Rob R said:
The more the West plays nice, the worse Xi will behave.

Australian naval divers injured after being subjected to Chinese warship’s sonar pulses | Australian politics | The Guardian

Acting prime minister criticises Chinese ship’s ‘unsafe and unprofessional conduct’ after Australian sailors had requested it stay clear
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

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You can't be nice to the CCP or Chinese business's people or the Chinese military
They see being nice as a weakness
 
Aussie in exile said:
You can't be nice to the CCP or Chinese business's people or the Chinese military
They see being nice as a weakness
Click to expand...
It's China's ancient culture. Centuries of lawlessness where they not only have to deal with other folks but also fear the government. It's no surprise to learn the standard greeting is "Have you eaten?"
Even here, especially when I first got here, I got comments like "You're too honest", "too straight", and "You think too much". Or they got, still do actually, really offended when I want to put an agreement(business usually) in writing. Had several friends and others with stories about their local partners or contacts take off with company money or try to rip them off with a one-time slightly bigger gains rather than have a long term mutually profitable relationship.
 
Spearman said:
It's China's ancient culture. Centuries of lawlessness where they not only have to deal with other folks but also fear the government. It's no surprise to learn the standard greeting is "Have you eaten?"
Even here, especially when I first got here, I got comments like "You're too honest", "too straight", and "You think too much". Or they got, still do actually, really offended when I want to put an agreement(business usually) in writing. Had several friends and others with stories about their local partners or contacts take off with company money or try to rip them off with a one-time slightly bigger gains rather than have a long term mutually profitable relationship.
Click to expand...
The centuries of lawlessness relate to one of the great myths - that there is one China in reality China is multiple countries and has been for millenia with its main unification being under the Mongols. China has actually spent less time as one country than the United Kingdom.

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Article from The Conversation that I think nails the current state of play between the US and the PRC - 'enduring sate of rivalry'. It's not ideal, but if it goes no further we will be doing OK. Unfortunately history suggests otherwise according to the author.

theconversation.com

Don’t be fooled by Biden and Xi talks − China and the US are enduring rivals rather than engaged partners

It’s good to talk − just don’t expect it to result in a reset in relations between Beijing and Washington.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
 
CD Xbow said:
Article from The Conversation that I think nails the current state of play between the US and the PRC - 'enduring sate of rivalry'. It's not ideal, but if it goes no further we will be doing OK. Unfortunately history suggests otherwise according to the author.

theconversation.com

Don’t be fooled by Biden and Xi talks − China and the US are enduring rivals rather than engaged partners

It’s good to talk − just don’t expect it to result in a reset in relations between Beijing and Washington.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
Click to expand...

For similar reasons, Xi has shunned attempts by the U.S. to bring China further into the rules-based international order.

The same ‘rules based order’ where Israel gets US cover to carpet bomb Palestinian hospitals?

Already many nations are applying to join BRICS which is seen as an alternative to the ‘rules based order’ rigged to ensure supremacy of the U.S. and western mates.

Already the group of Muslim nations (including Indonesia) are ignoring the US and making China their first port of call to broker a ceasefire in Palestine, even though China has historically not been involved in diplomacy in the region. They did negotiate a peaceful deal for dialogue between Iran and Saudi this year however, which the US can’t.

Don’t underestimate how important these events may be in shaping history.
 
schneebly111 said:
For similar reasons, Xi has shunned attempts by the U.S. to bring China further into the rules-based international order.

The same ‘rules based order’ where Israel gets US cover to carpet bomb Palestinian hospitals?

Already many nations are applying to join BRICS which is seen as an alternative to the ‘rules based order’ rigged to ensure supremacy of the U.S. and western mates.

Already the group of Muslim nations (including Indonesia) are ignoring the US and making China their first port of call to broker a ceasefire in Palestine, even though China has historically not been involved in diplomacy in the region. They did negotiate a peaceful deal for dialogue between Iran and Saudi this year however, which the US can’t.

Don’t underestimate how important these events may be in shaping history.
Click to expand...
BRICS won't go anywhere because of PRC-India tension, also other than hate of the west there is not a lot in common. Nor do I see much admirable in BRICS countries, mostly autocratic, lacking in human rights, poorly governed and corrupt.

I would much rather a world than follows 'western' order than an order imposed by the PRC or Russia. Yes, I wish there was less wars and violence. No, I don't agree with some of the things that happen in the current order. The utter unwillingness of Israel to pursue a diplomatic solution, hiding behind an illusionary military/technical solution since 1995 has led to the current terrible war.

Close to home, you might want to cast an eye to West Papua where it's been estimated half a million have died following the Indonesian takeover.
 
BRICS was created by some numpty in a US think tank, they threw in South Africa because they wanted an S at the end.

Disparate economies/ideologies/goals. Helps for doing hot takes on the petro dollar or fiat currency or whatever clickbait someone needs to write
 
PRC is spreading more peace and harmony by swarming over 100 boats into the Philippine's EEZ. This follows the well publicised episode about a week ago when they deliberately injured RAN divers with their sonar.

www.abc.net.au

Here's why Chinese vessels were 'swarming' at a South China Sea reef, and what the Philippines is doing about it

The Philippine Coast Guard revealed it was monitoring more than 135 Chinese vessels "swarming" at a disputed South China Sea reef within the country's exclusive economic zone.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 

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James Holmes discusses the attacks on ships in the Red Sea by the Houthi's, pointing out some attacks have used antiship ballistic missiles (ASBM). The only country known to have ASBM in their inventory is the PRC leading to some speculation if these are chinese weapons and how they may have got them. The PRC is not a party to the missile non-proliferation agreement.

Where Did the Houthis Get Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles?
 
Aussie in exile said:
It couldn't happen to nicer people LOL.
www.theage.com.au

The Chinese dream has turned into a nightmare

The downfall of property giant Evergrande tells the story of an epic crash that’s affected everyone in China. And there could be more pain to come.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
Click to expand...
Xi’s mantra: “Houses are for living in, not for speculation.” Evergrande epitomised the risks Beijing wants to fix. The company borrowed with apparent abandon to expand, while rumours of its hidden debt load threatened broader disruption to the financial system.

Ultimately, Xi wants to create a more resilient housing market that better serves China’s people and reduces the risk of a massive price crash.

Seems reasonable.

Kinda ironic that the US did socialism for the investors/banks in response to the GFC, China allowing a few of them to default here
As usual, rumours of Chinese imminent demise tend to be grossly exaggerated
 
CD Xbow said:
James Holmes discusses the attacks on ships in the Red Sea by the Houthi's, pointing out some attacks have used antiship ballistic missiles (ASBM). The only country known to have ASBM in their inventory is the PRC leading to some speculation if these are chinese weapons and how they may have got them.
Click to expand...
Pretty wild speculation with no evidence, far more likely to be Iranian missiles

In February 2011, Iran demonstrated a short-range anti-ship ballistic missile named Persian Gulf or Khalij Fars, a missile based on the Fateh-110 which successfully hit a stationary target vessel. It has been reported as a short ranged ballistic missile with a range of 250–300 km.[11] Later, Iran introduced the Hormuz missile with anti-ship capability.[12] In 2020, Iran unveiled the Zulfiqar Basir, an anti-ship variant of the Zulfiqar with a range of 700km.[12] Iran also reports successful test of the Emad missile to target aircraft carriers at a range of more than 1,000km.

Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia
CD Xbow said:
The PRC is not a party to the missile non-proliferation agreement.

Where Did the Houthis Get Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles?
Click to expand...
They've applied(in 2002) but are awaiting acceptance and have pledged to adhere nonetheless. The MTCR is also not a treaty and isn't legally binding.

“Bridging the gap”: Analysis of China’s export controls against international standards

Article raises some spurious points about the PLA in it's infancy(during a civil war 80 years ago) flogged off some arms cause they were desperate. Then 'occams razor' and bob's your uncle, China evil bait
 
barreness said:
Xi’s mantra: “Houses are for living in, not for speculation.” Evergrande epitomised the risks Beijing wants to fix. The company borrowed with apparent abandon to expand, while rumours of its hidden debt load threatened broader disruption to the financial system.

Ultimately, Xi wants to create a more resilient housing market that better serves China’s people and reduces the risk of a massive price crash.

Seems reasonable.

Kinda ironic that the US did socialism for the investors/banks in response to the GFC, China allowing a few of them to default here
As usual, rumours of Chinese imminent demise tend to be grossly exaggerated
Click to expand...
Xi the property billionaire not supporting Evergrande owned by a political rival. Sure it was about the people, perhaps read something other than Global times.

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Rob R said:
Xi the property billionaire not supporting Evergrande owned by a political rival.
Click to expand...
Source? pretty difficult to find the details of Xi's personal wealth
Rob R said:
Sure it was about the people, perhaps read something other than Global times.

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Click to expand...
That was a direct quote from the article you listed. I'm not the one openly encouraging economic destitution for 1.2 billion people
 
barreness said:
Pretty wild speculation with no evidence, far more likely to be Iranian missiles

In February 2011, Iran demonstrated a short-range anti-ship ballistic missile named Persian Gulf or Khalij Fars, a missile based on the Fateh-110 which successfully hit a stationary target vessel. It has been reported as a short ranged ballistic missile with a range of 250–300 km.[11] Later, Iran introduced the Hormuz missile with anti-ship capability.[12] In 2020, Iran unveiled the Zulfiqar Basir, an anti-ship variant of the Zulfiqar with a range of 700km.[12] Iran also reports successful test of the Emad missile to target aircraft carriers at a range of more than 1,000km.

Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia

They've applied(in 2002) but are awaiting acceptance and have pledged to adhere nonetheless. The MTCR is also not a treaty and isn't legally binding.

“Bridging the gap”: Analysis of China’s export controls against international standards

Article raises some spurious points about the PLA in it's infancy(during a civil war 80 years ago) flogged off some arms cause they were desperate. Then 'occams razor' and bob's your uncle, China evil bait
Click to expand...
Yes, he certainly jumped to a conclusion. I agree in the context an Iranian derived missile would have been most likely. It begs the question a bit about what is an antiship ballistic missile? If I launch a short range ballistic missile with only GPS type guidance at a moving ship, I have almost no chance of hitting it but it is strictly speaking an ASBM, although not a very good one. I think this is likely the case here with the Houthis. At the other end of the spectrum there are the PRC DF21D and similar, which have a guided terminal phase using radar +/- infrared to identify a moving ship and manouvre to intercept. Very different situations.
 
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