Why do swimmers peak so young?

[Barry_Badrinath]

Thorpie was a world champ in his mid teens. Missy Franklin too. Now we've got this Chinese girl smashing records at 16. It seems by the time a lot of swimmers reach their mid 20s they are pretty much finished as a medal chance. In most other sports their body takes a little while to develop and so they come into their prime at around 25-30.

How is it possible that teenagers are able to dominate a world sport? Especially one that doesn't require a huge skill set and seemingly relies on physical conditioning, something that should take years to develop? The idea of a 16 year old dominating the NBA, NFL, AFL, NRL, UFC, test cricket or tennis is unthinkable.

Any swimmers on the board that know/have any ideas?

 

[Gibbsy]

The answer starts with D

 

[Gibbsy]

Determination

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Determination

Haha. You got me there.

 

[juzzo]

A similar phenomenon exists within gymnastics. Perhaps flexibility is an under-rated attribute in swimming?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

It's not like the whole field are teenagers. Girls generally peak in the early 20s, guys a little older.

The other factor is the massive training workload. By the time they are 23 they've probably spent a decade or more doing two sessions a day, every day, four or five hours in the pool. Once you've achieved, that's pretty tempting to give up.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Swimmers don't peak when they are young but they are able to be world champs when they are young.

Its a combination of being able to get up early in the morning and do the druggery of following the black line day in day out. It's a pretty boring lifestyle, get up at 4am train for 2 or 3 hours, go to school, train in the arvo, go home do some homework be in bed by 9. You can do that in your teenage years but by your early 20's most people have had enough and want a normal life. Footballers play to their early 30's and they can combine a decent lifestyle with level of sport. Swimmers, athletes etc are on the edge of their athletic ability. Footballers aren't.

Thorpe was a faster swimmer in 2006 when he finished as opposed to 15 in 1998 when he won the 400m over Hackett at the World Champs in Perth. Phelps swam at the Sydney Olympics at 15 and arguably he peaked at Beijing when he was 23. The body suites BS makes it hard to know when his true peak was, but Beijing wouldn't be far off it if it was post Beijing.

Both Mark Spitz and Murray Rose were able to swim faster times in their 40's and 50's respectively than their Olympic times for one of their events. Better training methods "faster pools" etc. Technology has a far bigger impact on swimming than on athletics. I think Shane Gould in 2004 swan a faster 100m butterfly when she was 47 than she did when she was 15 at the Australian trials or the Masters games.

 

[juzzo]

Why is it necessary for them to train so early in the morning?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Why is it necessary for them to train so early in the morning?

The great doco that Foxtel was running on all their channels for 3 days prior to the Opening Ceremony - The Spirit of Australian Sports - Swimming hosted by Thorpe, says that councils would not put lane ropes out so the coaches who had squads in the pool, had to battle with the general public for access to the pools. Forbes Carlile or maybe it was Don Talbot was so pissed off that he asked the councils to be able to rent the pools early in the morning and start his squads training then. It worked and with Australia dominating the '56 Olympics it probably was taken as the best training tactic from the best swimming nation as we dominated and won 8 of 13 events and all 7 freestyle events. I'll check the doco and see if I can find out which coach it was who came up with the idea.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Why is it necessary for them to train so early in the morning?

Because you have to fit in 4-5 hours a day somewhere, and you still have to go to school/work.

 

[estibador]

As a few others have mentioned it's purely a mental thing.

People who've never done competitive swimming training don't realise what a mentally draining sport it is. The training is incredibly boring compared to most other sports and coupled with the early starts it takes a lot of willpower to keep yourself motivated. Once that starts to wane even a little you're finished. Don't underestimate how hard it is to get up on a freezing cold winter morning knowing you're about to jump in some water for two hours.

Combine that with the fact that you have to start at a really young age to get to Olympic level and it's not surprising many get burnt out by their early 20's.

I did it for about 13 years until my late teens (much lower level obviously) and I'd put myself through 100 back-to-back footy preseasons before I'd ever get back in the pool.

 

[estibador]

Don't underestimate how hard it is to get up on a freezing cold winter morning knowing you're about to jump in some water for two hours.

Just to further this point, I did a couple of years at boarding school and we actually had a couple of instances of guys hiding in the lockers under their beds to avoid the wake-up knock for early morning winter training.

I kid you not. That alone should give you an idea of how much fun early morning winter training is.

We did have a 'heated' pool, but all that consisted of was solar blankets being left on overnight which did little more than warm it up just enough to not give you hypothermia.

 

[SJ]

Agree with a few of the above replies. But it's very rare that male swimmers can even reach the pinnacle of their discipline in their teenage years, never mind their own individual peak. More common for female swimmers, as they physically mature quicker. Same can be said in other sports too, mind (gymnastics, tennis etc.).

Shane Gould held every female freestyle world record from 100m to 1500m at the age of 15. By 16 she had retired. It is a demanding sport and by their mid-20s when the next teenage freak has come along, most swimmers have had enough.

 

[blackcat]

Thorpie was a world champ in his mid teens. Missy Franklin too. Now we've got this Chinese girl smashing records at 16. It seems by the time a lot of swimmers reach their mid 20s they are pretty much finished as a medal chance. In most other sports their body takes a little while to develop and so they come into their prime at around 25-30.

How is it possible that teenagers are able to dominate a world sport? Especially one that doesn't require a huge skill set and seemingly relies on physical conditioning, something that should take years to develop? The idea of a 16 year old dominating the NBA, NFL, AFL, NRL, UFC, test cricket or tennis is unthinkable.

Any swimmers on the board that know/have any ideas?

swimming training traditionally is in the hours 6-8am. Only works in life for juveniles who have their parents drive them.

So the parents (adults) indeed do compromise with life. But they dont train for the two hours, and depending on the drive, they can get home for shut eye.

People need a life. Hours and commitment, when athletes are 18. Dont work.

works for talent with AIS scholarships and the support and paid board and keep.


Matt Welsh is one guy, who only started in a squad in? Nunawading? Ivanhoe? Hawthorn? VicCentre (CBD) when he had finished his high school at Scotch College. Uni might have made that feasible. He did compete at Scotch, but never was in a amateur elite squad.

 

[blackcat]

Thorpe was a faster swimmer in 2006 when he finished as opposed to 15 in 1998 when he won the 400m over Hackett at the World Champs in Perth. Phelps swam at the Sydney Olympics at 15 and arguably he peaked at Beijing when he was 23. The body suites BS makes it hard to know when his true peak was, but Beijing wouldn't be far off it if it was post Beijing.

thorpes Wrs in the 200 and 400 were after Sydney, but before Athens?

So in the middle of his career? 22, 23 or 21.

 

[SJ]

thorpes Wrs in the 200 and 400 were after Sydney, but before Athens?

So in the middle of his career? 22, 23 or 21.

Thorpe peaked in 2001-2002, so 19- or 20-years-old.

 

[blackcat]

Thorpe peaked in 2001-2002, so 19- or 20-years-old.

I knew he peaked after Sydney. Thanks for the details. I knew he did not set records after those World Champs post Sydney.

IMO, Pieter Van den Hoogenband, is/was the best ever male, better than Spits, Thorpe, Phelps.

Second would be Alex Popov.

Thorpes events were not the blue riband.

100 is.

need to win that. PvdH doubled up at Olympics. I think Popo only won one. Did not do the back to back.

PvdH won 100 and 200 in Athens. (after the 100 in Sydney)

There could be an argument for Phelps cos he is the best ever medley. But in terms of purity, medley should not be seen as a better marque than 100 free. In my opinion. I am not a swimmer.

Why better than Spits? Larger catchment of athletes now, than Munich.

 

[Contra Mundum]

As a few others have mentioned it's purely a mental thing.

People who've never done competitive swimming training don't realise what a mentally draining sport it is. The training is incredibly boring compared to most other sports and coupled with the early starts it takes a lot of willpower to keep yourself motivated. Once that starts to wane even a little you're finished. Don't underestimate how hard it is to get up on a freezing cold winter morning knowing you're about to jump in some water for two hours.

Combine that with the fact that you have to start at a really young age to get to Olympic level and it's not surprising many get burnt out by their early 20's.

I did it for about 13 years until my late teens (much lower level obviously) and I'd put myself through 100 back-to-back footy preseasons before I'd ever get back in the pool.

My son is a fair to middling swimmer on the edge of State level times. The hours they put in are bullshit - pool sesssions four mornings a week, weight sessions and "dry land" which is general fitness and body weight exercises - the elite do more. The reason they peak so young is purely burn out related

 

[blackcat]

My son is a fair to middling swimmer on the edge of State level times. The hours they put in are bullshit - pool sesssions four mornings a week, weight sessions and "dry land" which is general fitness and body weight exercises - the elite do more. The reason they peak so young is purely burn out related

what a wank, dry land sessions.

Kids are 15yos. They are not swimming to fulfill some australian idea of nationhood and the pool on the olympic theatre.

Notice, James Magnussen is a guy who only came into the elite sphere in his late teenage year, 171819, before he was another middling meddling paddler.

Obviously, the guy is now on more hormones under the sun for the Port McQuarie sewerage monitor, to register different elements of pharmaceuticals going through the sewage ducts... But he was never the 15yo Australian record holder. which is at is should be. The pressure on the 20 or 21 yo, is immense now. Pity he does not have a counsel, or a mentor, to tell him, he is being used by this big operation and olympic myth, and it is not him, nor Justin Bieber, they are just symbols that the dominant culture grapples hold of and strangles the dear life from and defines them. They are not defining themselves, though they will not know that.

 

[Contra Mundum]

what a wank, dry land sessions.

Kids are 15yos. They are not swimming to fulfill some australian idea of nationhood and the pool on the olympic theatre.

Notice, James Magnussen is a guy who only came into the elite sphere in his late teenage year, 171819, before he was another middling meddling paddler.

Obviously, the guy is now on more hormones under the sun for the Port McQuarie sewerage monitor, to register different elements of pharmaceuticals going trough the sewage ducts... But he was never the 15yo Australian record holder. which is at is should be. The pressure on the 20 or 21 yo, is immense now. Pity he does not have a counsel, or a mentor, to tell him, he is being used by this big operation and olympic myth, and it is not him, nor Justin Bieber, they are just symbols that the dominant culture grapples hold of and strangles the dear life from and defines them. They are not defining themselves, though they will not know that.

20 stone coach potato or journalist says "you have let us down" when you have got up at 4AM five times a week and pumped out 5 to 10Ks!

My son has pegged back the swimming - it has helped him with his "motor" in footy but

 

[blackcat]

20 stone coach potato or journalist says "you have let us down" when you have got up at 4AM five times a week and pumped out 5 to 10Ks!

a Brit cyclist had a go at at BBC reporter (he is their, was their hope),
and like Leisel Jones, they both copped it.

Jones should put out a challenge to any critic, a ten km run when she returns. Or a VO2max test.Or, a comparison of her VO2max to when she was 15, with a sports scientist offering the expert opinion, cos your VO2 does decrease with age.

I know why Leisel looks bigger. Because she IS.

BUT why? Because of the fricken hormones she HAS to take, for you, for me, for Australia, for the media. She has put on red tissue, muscle, functional muscle she will use in the pool, because she is taking exogenous hormones. That is my gripe. I dont want females taking hormones that may have a greater affect on their future life, than Magnussen. The exogenous hormones, are less likley to affect a male, in that negative sphere.

So my working paper is, she is on hormones to improve performance because the olympics defines the Channel 7 Sunrise crowd. It defines Oz. And I use Oz instead of Aus, cos I wish to channel Alice in Wonderland, this is mythology of autralia, the medal dias, and medal count. meh.

When did she have to start supplementing with exogenous hormones. and yes, I am being diplomatic, using weasel words and euphemisms, because the individual cannot be held to account.

Contra, read what Savulescu says. He studied under Singer in the 80s at Clayton. I follow him on twitter now, primarily cos of his take on peds, with my interest in cycling. http://www.spiegel.de/international...ing-in-sports-should-be-allowed-a-844939.html
he follows a few cyclists. supportive (pov) of their predicament. Armstrong, Frank Shleck.

 

[Kram]

So the parents (adults) indeed do compromise with life. But they dont train for the two hours, and depending on the drive, they can get home for shut eye.

From what I've heard the sport is infamous for 'pushy' parents.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

100 metres is more about strength, so the guys in that tend to be abut older. For the longer and non-freestyle events technique and stroke efficiency are more important than strength, so a younger swimmer with good technique can be up there.

The basic reason why the training load is so heavy is that they need the endurance and stamina to maintain an efficient stroke throughout the race. Once you get tired and your stroke falls apart you come to a screaming halt very quickly.

Over a 50 or even 100 you can get away with it by just smashing out with pure strength but anything longer you just can't keep it up. Even the best hundred swimmers like Popov had good strokes, the 50 is often won by a thrasher.

 

[blackcat]

From what I've heard the sport is infamous for 'pushy' parents.

Parents
Of
Olympic
Swimmers

who is the worst tennis parent of all time. Not Dokic. I think it is the father of the woman that Chis Anstey shacked up with. Mary Pierce.

Agassi's old man, and Hewitts old man were terrible to their sons and their tales of sporting conquest/glory.

I think vicarious parents are a good metric for the decadence and social decline in the west. When parents can indulge through their children, how warped leisure time, has become.

POOS - Parents, Partners, Pals Of Our Swimmers


www.poosaus.com/
POOS was extended from "Parents Of Olympic Swimmers" to include all supporters of the Australian Swim Team, and henceforth are known as the "Parents, ...

 

[Illinois Nazi]

From what I've heard the sport is infamous for 'pushy' parents.

no more than other sports, I don't think. There's probably a higher level of "expert" parents because they spend so much time around the pool that they think they know all about it.

Although the possibility of being at the top level younger may make the parents more visible.