The Manager Merry-go-Round

[moomba]

It's inevitable. So many managers have "special" relationships with agents, and you could see more and more deals which didn't make a lot not sense for the club but probably made someone pretty rich.

Also with the lifespan of your average manager getting smaller and smaller, it didn't make sense to put all your transfer eggs in one basket, when in a few months time you may well have a different manager with totally different ideas.

 

[jod23]

Im never calling Slot the head coach of Liverpool though.

He's the manager to me.

 

[SM]

Weird.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Which of these Premier League winning gaffers were managers and which were head coaches?

Ferguson (13), Guardiola (7), Wenger (3), Mourinho (3), Conte, Ancelotti, Ranieri, Klopp, Dalglish, Pellegrini, Mancini.

 

[Bostonian]

Which of these Premier League winning gaffers were managers and which were head coaches?

Ferguson (13), Guardiola (7), Wenger (3), Mourinho (3), Conte, Ancelotti, Ranieri, Klopp, Dalglish, Pellegrini, Mancini.

The ones who dealt with scouting and controlled most of the signings were the managers.

The ones who had little to no input into scouting and picking out specific players were the head coaches.

 

[SM]

Which of these Premier League winning gaffers were managers and which were head coaches?

Ferguson (13), Guardiola (7), Wenger (3), Mourinho (3), Conte, Ancelotti, Ranieri, Klopp, Dalglish, Pellegrini, Mancini.

Who cares?

 

[Frank Bunn]

The ones who dealt with scouting and controlled most of the signings were the managers.

The ones who had little to no input into scouting and picking out specific players were the head coaches.

They are the definitions. But which of those names had each type of role? What I'm getting at is whether managers or head coaches have been more successful in the PL.

Fergie was definitely a manager. The Cantona signing story is that he was personally on the phone with Howard Wilkinson. But it was in an era before head coaches became popular.

In more modern times I reckon Pep is a manager too. City has a few affiliate clubs and a big scouting network but he probably has the final say on transfers. He dictates the style of play then signs players who can fit into that.

 

[SM]

They are the definitions. But which of those names had each type of role? What I'm getting at is whether managers or head coaches have been more successful in the PL.

Fergie was definitely a manager. The Cantona signing story is that he was personally on the phone with Howard Wilkinson. But it was in an era before head coaches became popular.

In more modern times I reckon Pep is a manager too. City has a few affiliate clubs and a big scouting network but he probably has the final say on transfers. He dictates the style of play then signs players who can fit into that.

Most if not all head coaches have the final say on most transfers. They're just presented with options to pick from.

I doubt pep personally signed off on Daniel arzani or Aaron mooys signing.

 

[Bostonian]

They are the definitions. But which of those names had each type of role? What I'm getting at is whether managers or head coaches have been more successful in the PL.

Fergie was definitely a manager. The Cantona signing story is that he was personally on the phone with Howard Wilkinson. But it was in an era before head coaches became popular.

In more modern times I reckon Pep is a manager too. City has a few affiliate clubs and a big scouting network but he probably has the final say on transfers. He dictates the style of play then signs players who can fit into that.

Well at this stage managers will have because they are part of the old way of running clubs.

With the advent of teams using analytics to find players the old role of a "manager" will be more prevalent in lower league football due to the prohibitive costs of having large scouting and analytics teams.

DeZerbi just moved on from us because he didn't have the power of a manager to dictate what players he got.

I'm guessing Maresca won't have much of a say on individual players either.

In the head coach system the coach says I need a left back of certain attributes, then it will vary on the club as to how much of the final say the coach will have.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Well at this stage managers will have because they are part of the old way of running clubs.

With the advent of teams using analytics to find players the old role of a "manager" will be more prevalent in lower league football due to the prohibitive costs of having large scouting and analytics teams.

DeZerbi just moved on from us because he didn't have the power of a manager to dictate what players he got.

I'm guessing Maresca won't have much of a say on individual players either.

In the head coach system the coach says I need a left back of certain attributes, then it will vary on the club as to how much of the final say the coach will have.

You can call it the old way but so far having a manager rather than head coach has been successful in the PL. It could be that having a head coach suits some clubs and their ambitions more than others.

 

[SM]

This whole discussion has started because Jod doesn't pay attention outside the Liverpool bubble to the fact almost all clubs have moved to a head coach model in the last 15 years and now that Liverpool have he's outraged.

 

[jod23]

This whole discussion has started because Jod doesn't pay attention outside the Liverpool bubble to the fact almost all clubs have moved to a head coach model in the last 15 years and now that Liverpool have he's outraged.

You're special bro.

 

[SM]

You're special bro.

If you say so. Then there's you carrying on about Brighton appointing a(nother) head coach and making it about Liverpool.

 

[jod23]

If you say so. Then there's you carrying on about Brighton appointing a(nother) head coach and making it about Liverpool.

 

[Frank Bunn]

This whole discussion has started because Jod doesn't pay attention outside the Liverpool bubble to the fact almost all clubs have moved to a head coach model in the last 15 years and now that Liverpool have he's outraged.

You said you didn't care. Weird.

Which model, manager or head coach, has been more successful in the Premier League?

 

[Cruyff14]

Manager has.

 

[chef]

You said you didn't care. Weird.

Which model, manager or head coach, has been more successful in the Premier League?

I guess in a way Pep is a head coach. City have scouts and Sporting directors to choose the players that fit Peps system for him to use.

They were setting it up for him before he started there.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

It’s like NFL ..the better reputation the coach the more likely they’ll have a say in recruiting etc. So hence why manager would be more likely successful ie they’re already considered more highly / role with top club etc

 

[SM]

You said you didn't care. Weird.

Which model, manager or head coach, has been more successful in the Premier League?

Why is it weird to not care what their role at the club is if it brings success?

 

[SM]

I guess in a way Pep is a head coach. City have scouts and Sporting directors to choose the players that fit Peps system for him to use.

They were setting it up for him before he started there.

Pep is absolutely a head coach which was my point about players like Arzani.

 

[Hamingja]

Pep is absolutely a head coach which was my point about players like Arzani.

Players like Arzani are not first team players so Pep wouldn't care less. Players like that are just commodities to the City Group and the recruitment team would have a side budget to speculate.

 

[SM]

Players like Arzani are not first team players so Pep wouldn't care less. Players like that are just commodities to the City Group and the recruitment team would have a side budget to speculate.

Absolutely.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Players like Arzani are not first team players so Pep wouldn't care less. Players like that are just commodities to the City Group and the recruitment team would have a side budget to speculate.

I reckon it would have been Pep's call on big signings like Haaland, Grealish, Gvardiol. And also letting other players go such as Cancelo, Palmer and Phillips - or at least effectively making the club's decision for them by not giving them games.

I can understand the rationale for clubs moving to the head coach system but so far it hasn't won PL titles. It has also caused friction where the manager/head coach wants more control over the squad - such as De Zerbi and Pochetino recently leaving their clubs.

 

[DBAH0]

 

[SM]

I reckon it would have been Pep's call on big signings like Haaland, Grealish, Gvardiol. And also letting other players go such as Cancelo, Palmer and Phillips - or at least effectively making the club's decision for them by not giving them games.

I can understand the rationale for clubs moving to the head coach system but so far it hasn't won PL titles. It has also caused friction where the manager/head coach wants more control over the squad - such as De Zerbi and Pochetino recently leaving their clubs.

Head coaches often get the final say on signings, they just aren't involved throughout the process.