Club Focus St Kilda 2022 - Cordy, Phillipou, Van Es, Hotton, Keeler

[Jeremias]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

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[aussierulesrules]

Operation Get Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

.

And someone to replace Ryder.

And someone for FB/CHB, unless Battle does the trick.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Operation Get Ben King.

And someone to replace Ryder.

And someone for FB/CHB, unless Battle does the trick.

Do you really want Ben King though. You've already got a pretty similar kid on your list. While there's an emotional pull and I'm sure the marketing department would love it, surely there are greater needs.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Do you really want Ben King though. You've already got a pretty similar kid on your list. While there's an emotional pull and I'm sure the marketing department would love it, surely there are greater needs.

The only major needs are to address question marks over the CHB, ruck depth and A grade/elite mids.
Most of this will be settled this coming season, but l disagree with the OP that we need a replacement for Ryder because there's just no such thing.
Marshall is perfectly capable as a sole ruck which opens a spot for Ben King in the forward line, or if need be he could play CHB for a year or two until an alternative is available.
Ben would be turning down some big dollars if he chose StKilda and there's no doubt the club would jump at the opportunity since it would give them 10 years to develop the other areas of the list.

Time will tell of course, but I believe he's priority No1 at Saint land. What he himself chooses to do is still anyone's guess.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

The only major needs are to address question marks over the CHB, ruck depth and A grade/elite mids.
Most of this will be settled this coming season, but l disagree with the OP that we need a replacement for Ryder because there's just no such thing.
Marshall is perfectly capable as a sole ruck which opens a spot for Ben King in the forward line, or if need be he could play CHB for a year or two until an alternative is available.
Ben would be turning down some big dollars if he chose StKilda and there's no doubt the club would jump at the opportunity since it would give them 10 years to develop the other areas of the list.

Time will tell of course, but I believe he's priority No1 at Saint land. What he himself chooses to do is still anyone's guess.

Not saying he’d be a good get but with an infinite war chest of money Nic Nat would be a perfect Ryder replacement

 

[ScrappyDo]

Not saying he’d be a good get but with an infinite war chest of money Nic Nat would be a perfect Ryder replacement

I think that would be a backwards step at this point.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Do you really want Ben King though. You've already got a pretty similar kid on your list. While there's an emotional pull and I'm sure the marketing department would love it, surely there are greater needs.

We clearly want him, but I agree, we don’t “need” him. He’d be pretty much pure luxury.

As I said in another thread, if his name was Ben Kong I doubt we’d even be considering making a serious play for him.

We’d be throwing everything at adding someone elite to our midfield, someone to replace Ryder, and an upgrade to FB/CHB- to partner Howard.

That said, if Bing specifically wants to come to us (to play with his twin, for the club they and their family barracked for growing up, and because we’re based 5 mins from his family home, etc), for a non-excessive amount of money, then I think we just have to get it done, and worry about the rest later.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

That said, if Bing specifically wants to come to us (to play with his twin, for the club they and their family barracked for growing up, and because we’re based 5 mins from his family home, etc), for a non-excessive amount of money, then I think we just have to get it done, and worry about the rest later.

I would have thought that performance and projection for the future would be more important to Ben than the fact his parents live near your training ground.

if St Kilda vault up to 5th the proposition becomes far more attractive.

If St kilda finish with ~10 wins again despite the bulk of the best 22 being in their absolute prime years then I’m not sure how interested he’s be.

Of course the most important factor will probably be how the Suns go.

 

[Blackas87]

Saints are such a hard club to analyse as I’m not sure what their plan is.

recently they’ve traded in ready made players (Hill, Jones ect.. and drafted mature age guys (Wilkie, Highmore) to suggest they are in win now mode.

I suggested they should continue this path trading in Tom Mitchell that would give Steele and Elite midfield partner that could push them into contention.

But they decided this year to back off that plan and take their pick to the draft and take an 18 year old. Have they conceded their win now approach hasn’t worked?

I think they need to focus on drafting elite midfielders the next few years to develop before Steele and Marshall’s time is up.

Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

will cost 2 first round draft picks and I think they could use those picks more wisely and focus on getting some young midfield talent in.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Saints are such a hard club to analyse as I’m not sure what their plan is.

recently they’ve traded in ready made players (Hill, Jones ect.. and drafted mature age guys (Wilkie, Highmore) to suggest they are in win now mode.

I suggested they should continue this path trading in Tom Mitchell that would give Steele and Elite midfield partner that could push them into contention.

But they decided this year to back off that plan and take their pick to the draft and take an 18 year old. Have they conceded their win now approach hasn’t worked?

I think they need to focus on drafting elite midfielders the next few years to develop before Steele and Marshall’s time is up.

Ben King will cost 2 first round draft picks and I think they could use those picks more wisely and focus on getting some young midfield talent in.

They're in that nice spot between the German trenches and the French trenches where all the bloated bodies and crater holes are.

 

[Atomboy]

Saints are such a hard club to analyse as I’m not sure what their plan is.

recently they’ve traded in ready made players (Hill, Jones ect.. and drafted mature age guys (Wilkie, Highmore) to suggest they are in win now mode.

I suggested they should continue this path trading in Tom Mitchell that would give Steele and Elite midfield partner that could push them into contention.

But they decided this year to back off that plan and take their pick to the draft and take an 18 year old. Have they conceded their win now approach hasn’t worked?

I think they need to focus on drafting elite midfielders the next few years to develop before Steele and Marshall’s time is up.

Ben King will cost 2 first round draft picks and I think they could use those picks more wisely and focus on getting some young midfield talent in.

Less a “win now” approach than an acknowledgment that our previous 7-8 years draft performance was an unmitigated disaster and we needed some half decent senior players to plug huge gaps.

Going to be a fairly young squad end of next year once Geary, Ryder and Hannebery move on. Think Hill will be the oldest player at 29.

Still think we are 2-3 seasons away from competing with the big boys.

 

[Blackas87]

Less a “win now” approach than an acknowledgment that our previous 7-8 years draft performance was an unmitigated disaster and we needed some half decent senior players to plug huge gaps.

Going to be a fairly young squad end of next year once Geary, Ryder and Hannebery move on. Think Hill will be the oldest player at 29.

Still think we are 2-3 seasons away from competing with the big boys.

2021 St Kilda had the oldest average age list in the league, that was mainly due to having the least amount of under21/22 year olds in the league. Saints aren’t old but there just isn’t a lot of youth coming through at St Kilda.

St Kilda’s midfield by round 1 2022
Ryder 34
Hannebery 31
Ross 28
Crouch 28
Hill 28
Jones 27
Steele 26
Marshal 26
Gresham 24

You think that group is 2-3 seasons from competing? to me that age group looks like a group that should be competing now which is I suggested they should of gone after Tom Mitchell to maximise that group now.

Do St Kilda have any young midfielders coming through to improve that group?
They’ve taken a young winger in the draft and imo should now focus on building a midfield for the future and hopefully develop before Steele goes into decline.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

2021 St Kilda had the oldest average age list in the league, that was mainly due to having the least amount of under21/22 year olds in the league. Saints aren’t old but there just isn’t a lot of youth coming through at St Kilda.

St Kilda’s midfield by round 1 2022
Ryder 34
Hannebery 31
Ross 28
Crouch 28
Hill 28
Jones 27
Steele 26
Marshal 26
Gresham 24

You think that group is 2-3 seasons from competing? to me that age group looks like a group that should be competing now which is I suggested they should of gone after Tom Mitchell to maximise that group now.

Do St Kilda have any young midfielders coming through to improve that group?
They’ve taken a young winger in the draft and imo should now focus on building a midfield for the future and hopefully develop before Steele goes into decline.

I think they have a window but it's short. I expect a much better year from them this year

 

[Blackas87]

I think they have a window but it's short. I expect a much better year from them this year

Agree they are in their window, they’ve recruited the past few years to win now and should of continued that going after Tom Mitchell. The top teams all have at least 2 elite midfielders, Saints need to get Steele an elite partner.

 

[Atomboy]

2021 St Kilda had the oldest average age list in the league, that was mainly due to having the least amount of under21/22 year olds in the league. Saints aren’t old but there just isn’t a lot of youth coming through at St Kilda.

St Kilda’s midfield by round 1 2022
Ryder 34
Hannebery 31
Ross 28
Crouch 28
Hill 28
Jones 27
Steele 26
Marshal 26
Gresham 24

You think that group is 2-3 seasons from competing? to me that age group looks like a group that should be competing now which is I suggested they should of gone after Tom Mitchell to maximise that group now.

Do St Kilda have any young midfielders coming through to improve that group?
They’ve taken a young winger in the draft and imo should now focus on building a midfield for the future and hopefully develop before Steele goes into decline.

That group is not a top 4 side in the next two years for mine. Steele goes down and it is pretty pedestrian in the middle.

Putting a lot of hope in some of the younger guys stepping up.

 

[Blackas87]

That group is not a top 4 side in the next two years for mine. Steele goes down and it is pretty pedestrian in the middle.

Putting a lot of hope in some of the younger guys stepping up.

I agree that group is not top 4. If they had added Tom Mitchell they potentially could be top 4.

Who are the younger guys though?

 

[Atomboy]

I agree that group is not top 4. If they had added Tom Mitchell they potentially could be top 4.

Who are the younger guys though?

Been waiting a while for the likes of Clark, Coffield, Bytel and Gresham to be consistent performers. Injury hasn’t helped those guys though.

Next rung down is Allison, Connolly, Byrnes and newest hope Sharman. Could be a good group, or could be our next Dunstan, Acres and Hugh Goddard.

If none of these guys step up then we are going to struggle…..

 

[ScrappyDo]

2021 St Kilda had the oldest average age list in the league, that was mainly due to having the least amount of under21/22 year olds in the league. Saints aren’t old but there just isn’t a lot of youth coming through at St Kilda.

St Kilda’s midfield by round 1 2022
Ryder 34
Hannebery 31
Ross 28
Crouch 28
Hill 28
Jones 27
Steele 26
Marshal 26
Gresham 24

You think that group is 2-3 seasons from competing? to me that age group looks like a group that should be competing now which is I suggested they should of gone after Tom Mitchell to maximise that group now.

Do St Kilda have any young midfielders coming through to improve that group?
They’ve taken a young winger in the draft and imo should now focus on building a midfield for the future and hopefully develop before Steele goes into decline.

The vibe amongst saints fans is that 2023 is where our window will open and by then Ryder and Hanners will be gone and Ross will hopefully be pushed to depth, but due to rebuilding on the run the last 3 years no one has a clear picture just yet.
The club has backed the 21yo Jack Bytel in favor of Luke Dunstan, along with Hunter Clark (22) and Ryan Byrnes (20) to add to the midfield whilst those ITK are also very bullish on Owens and Windhager, both just drafted.
Our youth profile is actually fairly good now but as mentioned we are waiting for them to step up, however the big unseen issue is simply that our squad has been turned over so much that they've just not had the opportunity to gel. With a kinder injury run this year we should start to see the real ability of the team and if not then Ratten may have join the bread queue.

 

[Blackas87]

Been waiting a while for the likes of Clark, Coffield, Bytel and Gresham to be consistent performers. Injury hasn’t helped those guys though.

Next rung down is Allison, Connolly, Byrnes and newest hope Sharman. Could be a good group, or could be our next Dunstan, Acres and Hugh Goddard.

If none of these guys step up then we are going to struggle…..

Not a lot of top talent in that group though, Only 3 are top 20 picks and those 3 have had a few years in the system.

Gresham 2015 pick 18
Coffield 2017 pick 8
Clark 2017 pick 9
Bytel 2018 pick 41
Allison 2020 pick 26
Connolly 2019 pick 64
Byrnes 2019 pick 52
Sharman mid season rookie

They just picked up Wanganeen-Milera who looks a future jet wingman, the next few years they need to focus on drafting top talented midfielders with their first round picks. Trading for Ben King which will cost 2 first rounders will be a mistake, pick him up in 4-5 years when the new young midfield is starting to peak.

 

[Atomboy]

Not a lot of top talent in that group though, Only 3 are top 20 picks and those 3 have had a few years in the system.

Gresham 2015 pick 18
Coffield 2017 pick 8
Clark 2017 pick 9
Bytel 2018 pick 41
Allison 2020 pick 26
Connolly 2019 pick 64
Byrnes 2019 pick 52
Sharman mid season rookie

They just picked up Wanganeen-Milera who looks a future jet wingman, the next few years they need to focus on drafting top talented midfielders with their first round picks. Trading for Ben King which will cost 2 first rounders will be a mistake, pick him up in 4-5 years when the new young midfield is starting to peak.

We have been much better with our drafting of mature agers, rookie lists and trades.

Our early round drafting has been atrocious for the past 10 years.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Not a lot of top talent in that group though, Only 3 are top 20 picks and those 3 have had a few years in the system.

Gresham 2015 pick 18
Coffield 2017 pick 8
Clark 2017 pick 9
Bytel 2018 pick 41
Allison 2020 pick 26
Connolly 2019 pick 64
Byrnes 2019 pick 52
Sharman mid season rookie

They just picked up Wanganeen-Milera who looks a future jet wingman, the next few years they need to focus on drafting top talented midfielders with their first round picks. Trading for Ben King which will cost 2 first rounders will be a mistake, pick him up in 4-5 years when the new young midfield is starting to peak.

Bytel was tracking top 10 before injuries in his draft year. Our recruiters were elated he slipped to us.
Byrnes and Connolly are definitely the goods too despite their draft number.

As you say it's a matter of timing and if it comes to pass that we land Bing then it's the existing group that will make up the team and those potential first round picks won't elevate our chances as much as 2 Kings will. It will also make us a good destination for quality mids from the trade/FA market.
Whist it's unconventional and something of a patchwork approach there's no reason it can't work.
After a decade in the wilderness the club needed to offer something to a dejected supporter base. Both King boys offer hope at the very least and strong membership is needed to pull us out of the sewer of debt and mediocrity.

 

[Blackas87]

Bytel was tracking top 10 before injuries in his draft year. Our recruiters were elated he slipped to us.
Byrnes and Connolly are definitely the goods too despite their draft number.

As you say it's a matter of timing and if it comes to pass that we land Bing then it's the existing group that will make up the team and those potential first round picks won't elevate our chances as much as 2 Kings will. It will also make us a good destination for quality mids from the trade/FA market.
Whist it's unconventional and something of a patchwork approach there's no reason it can't work.
After a decade in the wilderness the club needed to offer something to a dejected supporter base. Both King boys offer hope at the very least and strong membership is needed to pull us out of the sewer of debt and mediocrity.

Disagree two Kings will elevate the Saints over those 2 draft picks. It might get the fans excited but the game has been won in the midfield the past 20 years, and it’s that area the current team is lacking without top end young midfield talent coming through imo. If Bytel works out great but on exposed form he hasn’t shown much yet.

 

[lewdogs]

2021 St Kilda had the oldest average age list in the league, that was mainly due to having the least amount of under21/22 year olds in the league. Saints aren’t old but there just isn’t a lot of youth coming through at St Kilda.

St Kilda’s midfield by round 1 2022
Ryder 34
Hannebery 31
Ross 28
Crouch 28
Hill 28
Jones 27
Steele 26
Marshal 26
Gresham 24

You think that group is 2-3 seasons from competing? to me that age group looks like a group that should be competing now which is I suggested they should of gone after Tom Mitchell to maximise that group now.

Do St Kilda have any young midfielders coming through to improve that group?
They’ve taken a young winger in the draft and imo should now focus on building a midfield for the future and hopefully develop before Steele goes into decline.

That's hardly an old mildfield group though is it?

 

[Blackas87]

That's hardly an old mildfield group though is it?

No it’s in it’s prime. As I said that’s a group that should be competing now, not in 2-3 years time.

 

[lewdogs]

No it’s in it’s prime. As I said that’s a group that should be competing now, not in 2-3 years time.

Ok but why not in 2-3 years time?