Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay Pt 2 *Pilot Greg Lynn Guilty for the Murder of Carol Clay

[Kurve]

Here is PART 1 Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

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[revo333]

Hope your right someone else said the opposite

No point wasting mental energy speculating if it's a good thing or not.

It looks like we will have to sit tight until next week.

As we have seen in this thread unlikely that all the jury would have thought guilty so hopefully a few thorough days of dilberating will be a bad thing for GL and his version of events.

 

[Sir_Loin]

The Jury have sent a note to the Judge requesting recordings of Greg Lynn's evidence, as well as the evidence of a ballistics expert from the trial:

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/jury-in-former-jetstar-captains-double-murder-trial-sends-note-requesting-evidence/news-story/6cf7b2326d662dd7e14e2fe6bc117c5e

What did they fall asleep during those bits?

 

[Iretired00]

Did we ever find out exactly where the piece of Clay's skull was found and the shotgun lead was found? Lynn seems a bit perturbed by it claiming it was put there, it wasn't there when he left the scene.

Why would he say that?

I didn't see that information anywhere,good point.Why was he so perturbed ? I'm absolutely amazed that he could have,well at least thought he had,cleaned up the scene so well with what,a head torch.I have a couple of powerful head torches but they are no match for daylight even on an overcast day.And to find a 1oz deformed slug presumably dark coloured on the ground at night ? and a piece of skull....

 

[Iretired00]

100% you are putting the jigsaw together. The extra gunshots is the key as you say, Lynn believed someone would have heard these echo though the valley down the weed sprayer etc

Incredible that the shotgun blasts weren't in fact heard by others,weed sprayers must have had a big day.....
In that valley a shotgun would have been heard for Km's away

 

[RachieRach]

I didn't see that information anywhere,good point.Why was he so perturbed ? I'm absolutely amazed that he could have,well at least thought he had,cleaned up the scene so well with what,a head torch.I have a couple of powerful head torches but they are no match for daylight even on an overcast day.And to find a 1oz deformed slug presumably dark coloured on the ground at night ? and a piece of skull....

Maybe he revisited the site again when he returned in may to comb the scene for more evidence? Did I read that the skull and slug weren’t located til quite sometime later? So in his mind there shouldn’t have been anything incriminating left

 

[Zidane98]

I can see what you’re saying.
I think it’s more likely that GL went to Hill’s vehicle looking for the drone because he was worried about what was on it and it was at this point that everything unraveled, not sure how, IMO,
but as you said became a nightmare of all nightmares.
[GL stated on the stand that he searched for and retrieved the drone (after the deaths.)]

I don't buy he's worried about RH going to the police.. GL knows operating a drone in a national park is a serious offense. Only commercial operators are allowed to with a proper permit.

GL would know RH going to the police would be RH also tuning himself in.

 

[Zidane98]

Incredible that the shotgun blasts weren't in fact heard by others,weed sprayers must have had a big day.....
In that valley a shotgun would have been heard for Km's away

Maybe they did at the time but simply forgot about it.

 

[highcountry]

This judge is starting to get on my ****.


What the **** does he mean by that?

If I was on a jury and I was convinced that two accidental deaths was impossible I don’t think such a direction would move me much.

You can’t just dismiss what you have come to believe.

What you believe is common sense.

Juries are meant to be impartial and follow the direction of judges.

But in reality they are just average people with beating hearts and emotions that they can never really divorce themselves from.

I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of people who have been following this thread for some time believe that Lynn is guilty.

It stands to reason that many on the jury may have a similar mind set.

If you have such a mind set and you are told that certain aspects of the evidence can not be considered in your deliberations then you are not going to simply walk away from your conviction of Lynn being guilty.

If it was me in such a situation I would go back and examine “allowable matters” to see if support could be found to reach the standard required for a guilty verdict.

This I think might be in play with the questions asked to date.

 

[highcountry]

Incredible that the shotgun blasts weren't in fact heard by others,weed sprayers must have had a big day.....
In that valley a shotgun would have been heard for Km's away

I’ve said this from day one but many have refuted this. To my surprise.

That can be the only reason Lynn add those additional shots to his story.

 

[Sir_Loin]

I don't buy he's worried about RH going to the police.. GL knows operating a drone in a national park is a serious offense. Only commercial operators are allowed to with a proper permit.

GL would know RH going to the police would be RH also tuning himself in.

It’s a fine at best. It’s not like you’re going to jail if you’re flying a drone in a national park.

So RH cops a fine for flying his drone. GL potentially loses a lot more depending on what he’s up to.

 

[Sir_Loin]

If I was on a jury and I was convinced that two accidental deaths was impossible I don’t think such a direction would move me much.

You can’t just dismiss what you have come to believe.

What you believe is common sense.

Juries are meant to be impartial and follow the direction of judges.

But in reality they are just average people with beating hearts and emotions that they can never really divorce themselves from.

I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of people who have been following this thread for some time believe that Lynn is guilty.

It stands to reason that many on the jury may have a similar mind set.

If you have such a mind set and you are told that certain aspects of the evidence can not be considered in your deliberations then you are not going to simply walk away from your conviction of Lynn being guilty.

If it was me in such a situation I would go back and examine “allowable matters” to see if support could be found to reach the standard required for a guilty verdict.

This I think might be in play with the questions asked to date.

I’ve served on two juries. Both were serious offences. The judge’s directions were taken very seriously and debated at length both times.

Maybe I was lucky, the defendants definitely were.

 

[Zidane98]

It’s a fine at best. It’s not like you’re going to jail if you’re flying a drone in a national park.

So RH cops a fine for flying his drone. GL potentially loses a lot more depending on what he’s up to.

Incorrect. CASA can invoke court proceedings. A conviction is possible.

https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/enforcement-and-penalties#Penaltie

 

[Sir_Loin]

Incorrect. CASA can invoke court proceedings. A conviction is possible.

https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/enforcement-and-penalties#Penaltie

lol. It’s a fine. He’s not going to jail for flying his drone. Probably not even a fine, it’s a warning.

Maybe read that again.

 

[Zidane98]

lol. It’s a fine. He’s not going to jail for flying his drone. Maybe read that again.

It's a possibility, CASA have taken individuals to court before for illegal drone operation.

I doubt an airline pilot would be bothered by someone threatening to turn in footage obtained through illegal means on a drone - unless
RH had a commercial license plus a parks Victoria permit to operate a drone.

 

[Zidane98]

Must also be mentioned that operating a drone out of sight is potentially a massive fine. CASA were chasing the infamous Bunnings sausage drone operator who they couldn't identify for a $9000 fine

Man faces $9000 fine for using a drone to pick up a Bunnings sausage

Some people will go to great lengths to get hold of a Bunnings sausage, those delicious fried tubes of mystery meat.

www.theage.com.au

We heard testimony from the weed sprayers that RH's drone buzzed them over a km away from Bucks camp although we don't know if RH was piloting from there.

Presumably any supposed footage RH had of GL would have been from FPV drone operation mode and out of his direct sight.

This is a far more serious drone offence.

Basically in the event RH turned in footage RH would be guilty of:

Operation of a drone in a national park
Operation of a drone flying over other people
Operation of a drone out of line of sight in FPV mode without remote flying license

A potential fine of 10k plus going off the Bunnings precedent.

 

[Badd0g]

Or a slim line roof top tent without its cover on?

The base of the tent would be resting on the top of the trailer, resting on the fold of metal just above the mud guard.

Above the fold of metal there is something that appears to be about 200 to 300mm which appears to padded with another gap of about the same to the top.

I haven't read whether he was in a tent, his patrol has an awning, and most campers I've observed with a tent and an awning set their tent (or at least the door) under the awning

If bodies were tied to the top of the trailer, you may want to lose the cover or at least put it inside the trailer if traveling on Highways

Here's a clearer view of it https://images.app.goo.gl/5iD54uR5Q25AN6Rx5
Looks like it could be a soft floor csmper sans tent or potentially a very slim rooftop attached to a trailer. Pic of previous camp at Cobbler had him in a tent under a tarp so that doesn't (edited) fit with either of those possibilities.

 

[Badd0g]

It's a possibility, CASA have taken individuals to court before for illegal drone operation.

I doubt an airline pilot would be bothered by someone threatening to turn in footage obtained through illegal means on a drone - unless
RH had a commercial license plus a parks Victoria permit to operate a drone.

Flying in NP is definitely a no go, but recreational users don't need accreditation or registration..

 

[Badd0g]

Must also be mentioned that operating a drone out of sight is potentially a massive fine. CASA were chasing the infamous Bunnings sausage drone operator who they couldn't identify for a $9000 fine

Man faces $9000 fine for using a drone to pick up a Bunnings sausage

Some people will go to great lengths to get hold of a Bunnings sausage, those delicious fried tubes of mystery meat.

www.theage.com.au

We heard testimony from the weed sprayers that RH's drone buzzed them over a km away from Bucks camp although we don't know if RH was piloting from there.

Presumably any supposed footage RH had of GL would have been from FPV drone operation mode and out of his direct sight.

This is a far more serious drone offence.

Basically in the event RH turned in footage RH would be guilty of:

Operation of a drone in a national park
Operation of a drone flying over other people
Operation of a drone out of line of sight in FPV mode without remote flying license

A potential fine of 10k plus going off the Bunnings precedent.

I'm no fan of drones, but you could stand in the middle of that valley and fly the whole length and breadth and never be out of LOS. You'd need bloody good eyesight , but technically not out of LOS.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Could it be proven GL hunted illegally, too close to Bucks Camp?

Close to impossible even with drone footage, like what would the footage show, someone walking around the bush near camp with a firearm...it would prove nothing.

You would literally need footage of GL shooting in an unsafe manner towards people.amd campsites.

 

[theouthouse]

Did we ever find out exactly where the piece of Clay's skull was found and the shotgun lead was found? Lynn seems a bit perturbed by it claiming it was put there, it wasn't there when he left the scene.

Why would he say that?

The shotgun lead he is obviously caught out on in his initial story in regards to the type of gun that was involved.

I would hazard a guess that pumped up full of adrenaline and being shit scared he isn't going to notice what gun he has has stolen.

This argument falls apart though when he gives evidence of cycling through the chamber and emptying it by pulling the trigger himself.

Bits of skull being left at the scene, well it backs up his story, but goes against his perfect standards.

To me it means there is certainly some doubt as to the accuracy of his version of events.

It is well studied that the longer a person has to remember certain things the more likely they are to be inaccurate of the actual event. This is not a deliberate action but to do with workings in the brain. GL may be so convinced of his story that for any detail to be questionable he may find challenging to accept.

Certainly does not imply guilt IMO.

 

[GladdyDee]

No point wasting mental energy speculating if it's a good thing or not.

It looks like we will have to sit tight until next week.

As we have seen in this thread unlikely that all the jury would have thought guilty so hopefully a few thorough days of dilberating will be a bad thing for GL and his version of events.

More time might be better, as Im imagining them unchecking the boxes

 

[Badd0g]

RH was at same camp for a couple of days from 13th. Met 3 hunters there. Asked them if they minded him using his drone. Replied no problems.

I keep asking myself, why was RH so intent on using his drone?

The camp location wasn't that far from where his nephew died in a tragic shooting accident years beforehand, after being mistaken as a deer by his cousin.

Was RH on a mission to make hunting safer? Apparently the 3 huntering buddies he spoke with a week earlier, he had a lengthy chat with them about safe hunting processes.

Again, he was not in the valley on that occasion. He was at King Billy, which is to the west of the Howitt high plains. https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ampers-case-set-to-begin-20240512-p5jcx6.html

I keep asking myself why you are intent on raising things that have been discussed and/or could be easily found in a search (thread or google)

 

[gymjam]

Well this January 2023 paywalled article has something interesting in it; and to me, it seems like a deliberate ploy in order to shake the tree. I don't have a subscription but it was the phone of one of the lead (male) detectives. This article may have a photo of him.

 

[gymjam]

Again, he was not in the valley on that occasion. He was at King Billy, which is to the west of the Howitt high plains. https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ampers-case-set-to-begin-20240512-p5jcx6.html

I keep asking myself why you are intent on raising things that have been discussed and/or could be easily found in a search (thread or google)

it seems to me everybody else is raising things too, that have been discussed. Some media articles have also messed up dates and locations.

But the main points of my comments that you have replied to, still stand.

Cheers and thanks for pointing out my camping site area. Appreciated.

 

[gymjam]

It’s a fine at best. It’s not like you’re going to jail if you’re flying a drone in a national park.

So RH cops a fine for flying his drone. GL potentially loses a lot more depending on what he’s up to.

Could RH in the event he (hypothetically) had also turned in the firearm to police, have been fined for not being licensed and/or for 'stealing' a firearm?