Review Round 7, 2020 - GWS vs. Brisbane Lions

[jackess]

+22 on inside 50’s (56 -34) and we only won by 20 points. Very happy with the win, but it is clear where our improvement as a team needs to come from.

Defence or attack?

 

[CarterS]

+22 on inside 50’s (56 -34) and we only won by 20 points. Very happy with the win, but it is clear where our improvement as a team needs to come from.

It's not like we were inefficient. Their inside 50 conversion ratio was top class. Agree though there are definitely ways to keep improving.

 

[harvester]

Here is my Footyalmanac write up for yesterday's match

Derrinalphil’s in lockdown but I’m use to it. No one is allowed to visit, but being a Melbourne based Brissie supporter there were many years when no one would come around to my place to watch the footy. I would eagerly suggested that I would arrive at their place just before the game with gifts to quieten the non-footy supporters in the house, otherwise know as the ‘wife’, but my mates would always have an excuse: Foxtel’s on the blink, in laws are taking us out, etc. etc..



It picked up last season as the Lions started to show some form and a few of them even came to some live games but the Lions verses the Giants was watched at home by myself and the wife (she is a superior sort of woman who appreciates footy).



Back in the dark ages when Brissie were crap, losing all the time and having so few players worth watching, I would sit at home with a tipple of Rutherglen muscat and watch the Lions. I discovered a footy web site called Bigfooty that kept me sane, or more correctly gave me companionship, when all my footy mates were at Florentino’s or similar.



Some of the posters on Bigfooty disagree with most of the posts that I put up, but on a fan site, so what? Some people block certain posters but I don’t think that’s healthy. Too often the argument becomes the point and the actual point of the argument is forgotten. It’s a discussion and reaching a conclusion ain’t the point. Like a footy team, you have your favourites. I like Mitch Robbo, the bloke we picked up from Carlton. I wanted him on my membership card, but the club said that despite he being the most requested player it was not possible to have him on my card.



We all have our favourite footy memories. Meeting my great mate Mark at Crown after the 2001 Grand Final is mine. We were Fitzroy obsessives, going along week after week, watching the Roys slowly decline but now, in 2001, we were King of the heap. My favourite Bigfooty moment was at half time in a game (I seem to remember it was against the Crows) and we were 79 points down. Someone posted on the match day forum, “What would a coach say to a side that was 80 points down at half time?”



Just think about that. This is my all-time greatest post.



So back to the topic, on Saturday Brisbane played the Greenless Giants and I was surprised Brisbane were not clear favourites going into the match.



The Lions opened up with the first four goals of the match and I hadn’t opened my packet of Costco chocolate bikkies. We all have our discomfort food for when games get stressful. A mate of mine is a compulsive gobbler of the chili deep fried corn you can get from Ross’ Quality Nuts. When I watch a game with him, he is like a conveyer belt, continually feeding his face.



A bad skill error by Ah Chee then gifts the Giants a goal and they run the ball out of the centre to score another and the Lions go into quarter time only two goals up despite seeming to be in control of the match. The rest of the match followed similar lines. Brisbane would extend their lead but a few skill errors, usually by foot, would gift goals to the efficient Giants but for parts of the match Brisbane seemed to dominate the match without being able to over run the Giants.



Brisbane had 22 more inside 50’s but ran out winners by only 20 points. Brisbane do not have an efficient forward line but their array of midfielders is the envy of most other teams. Neale was well held for most of the day but players like Lyons, Zorko, Bailey popped up when required.



The Giants had domination of the centre square all day, at one stage having three times the clearances of the Lions. Geelong ran over Brisbane last week in one quarter where it seemed that Brisbane would have been better served to merely hand the ball to Dangerfield after very goal and set up to defend the seemingly inevitable Geelong forward entry from the centre bounce.



The Lions provided the highlights of the match. McCarthy taking two ripper marks and Rayner despite having little of the ball, taking a few screamers and hitting Cameron, on the lead, lace out, left foot, while being under extreme pressure.



The Lions now have umpteen games at home and the Giants need to get a few more inside 50’s. If Brisbane want a premiership this year they need a Gabba final series and their key forwards have to become as good as their defenders and midfielders. Daniel McStay ran around the ground demanding the ball and his ball usage, when not kicking for goal, is elite. His co-conspirator Hipwood had a game he would like to forget. Once finals start, Brisbane must become more efficient going forward or last years finals will simply repeat themselves.

GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY 2.3 4.4 8.5 10.8 (68)
BRISBANE 4.4 7.5 10.6 13.10 (88)

GOALS
Greater Western Sydney: Himmelberg 3, Taranto 2, Cameron 2, Finlayson, De Boer
Brisbane: Cameron 2, Rayner 2, Bailey 2, Zorko, Neale, McCarthy, Lyons, Hipwood, Martin, McCarthy



Derrinalphils votes



3 Votes: Birchall

2 Votes; Rich

1 Vote: Andrews



PS Remember I NEVER give an onballer a vote

Great post.
I also prefer to vote for players NOT in the midfield.

 

[jackess]

We were the second most efficient team before this round in terms of scores per inside 50. Unfortunately too many of those scores were behinds.

The inside 50 and scoring ladders after six rounds

The most attacking and the most efficient teams.

www.sen.com.au

But ya know we can't kick winning scores because our key forwards are rubbish and Charlie Cameron is the only one that can kick bags of goals.....

 

[Mighty Lions]

Hipwood and McStay played more up the ground to drag Davis and Haynes away and separate them. Remember the final when we just kept attacking from the same spot down the wing and they would just pick us off like Harris Andrews was doing to them. This was much better coaching and I cant remember Davis or especially Haynes getting too many intercept marks at all. As the Lord Fagan would say - they did the jobs. Like against the Eagles, first game last season.

AS much as a few loyal Lions supporters have made comment specifically about Hipwood's game yesterday, once again he & Dan both did what was asked of them as you say. On top of that, both players stats were better than average which was also noted by Fagan, Adcock & Co yesterday. If they both continue on in the same theme as yesterday I think we are serious contenders at the end of the season. The constant critisisms of both key forwards each week is really surprising given how we performed last year & this year thus far. And the constant talk of either of them being dropped in ludicrous in my opinion & wont happen unless in injury is incurred. (Fingers crossed that does't happen)

 

[Mighty Lions]

Couldnt help but notice McCluggage was huge in the first quarter and then sort of...vanished for the rest of the game.

Tagged out or a bit wary of his shoulder? I could be wrong though, going to watch the replay later today.

Cluggs shoulder was/is 100%. The strapping was simply a precaution.

 

[X AE A12]

We were the second most efficient team before this round in terms of scores per inside 50. Unfortunately too many of those scores were behinds.

The inside 50 and scoring ladders after six rounds

The most attacking and the most efficient teams.

www.sen.com.au

But ya know we can't kick winning scores because our key forwards are rubbish and Charlie Cameron is the only one that can kick bags of goals.....

Charlie couldn't kick a bag of goals yesterday

AS much as a few loyal Lions supporters have made comment specifically about Hipwood's game yesterday, once again he & Dan both did what was asked of them as you say. On top of that, both players stats were better than average which was also noted by Fagan, Adcock & Co yesterday. If they both continue on in the same theme as yesterday I think we are serious contenders at the end of the season. The constant critisisms of both key forwards each week is really surprising given how we performed last year & this year thus far. And the constant talk of either of them being dropped in ludicrous in my opinion & wont happen unless in injury is incurred. (Fingers crossed that does't happen)

The critics of the fwd discussers here seem to be far more dramatic about what's being said than the points that ive read and offered.

Don't recall reading Hipwood should be 'dropped', or anyone criticising McStay this week, but certainly don't think it's beyond comprehension that Ballenden or Skinner may provide a comparable or superior impact to Hipwood over some of his recent performances. I also liked the idea of giving him some time in the reserves to play around the ground a bit more, loosen up and get rid of his yips, made sense to me. I'd also be quite happy to see him get pushed under less balls as I'm certain that is not his role

 

[JasRulz63]

Cluggs shoulder was/is 100%. The strapping was simply a precaution.

To be fair even if his shoulder is 100%, he could be forgiven for being slightly apprehensive this match with getting contact on it.

On McCluggage, watching replays it always surprises me how often he's around where the ball is. But if you look at the stats, he's almost always top for us in distance covered, and usually top 3-5 in average speed in defense. He's close to the prototype of the type of winger our system needs.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Charlie couldn't kick a bag of goals yesterday

The critics of the fwd discussers here seem to be far more dramatic about what's being said than the points that ive read and offered.

Don't recall reading Hipwood should be 'dropped', or anyone criticising McStay this week, but certainly don't think it's beyond comprehension that Ballenden or Skinner may provide a comparable or superior impact to Hipwood over some of his recent performances. I also liked the idea of giving him some time in the reserves to play around the ground a bit more, loosen up and get rid of his yips, made sense to me. I'd also be quite happy to see him get pushed under less balls as I'm certain that is not his role

Sensational post!

 

[Happy_Neale]

McCarthy our best Geelong seconds pickup since Jarrod Jansen.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

One thing that annoys me every week is not our kicking for goal. It's Fagan's presser. You can never hear the question that he was asked.

It's similar to watching a tennis match but only being able to see one end!!

 

[jackess]

Charlie couldn't kick a bag of goals yesterday

The critics of the fwd discussers here seem to be far more dramatic about what's being said than the points that ive read and offered.

Don't recall reading Hipwood should be 'dropped', or anyone criticising McStay this week, but certainly don't think it's beyond comprehension that Ballenden or Skinner may provide a comparable or superior impact to Hipwood over some of his recent performances. I also liked the idea of giving him some time in the reserves to play around the ground a bit more, loosen up and get rid of his yips, made sense to me. I'd also be quite happy to see him get pushed under less balls as I'm certain that is not his role

Maybe in terms of stats their output might be similar but while our forwardline is functioning well there's no need to mess around with it on a bunch.

If Stef can ruck 85% of the match though I would drop Oscar for Skinner but I've given up on only wanting to play 1 ruck.

 

[pulpdriver]

Maybe in terms of stats their output might be similar but while our forwardline is functioning well there's no need to mess around with it on a bunch.

If Stef can ruck 85% of the match though I would drop Oscar for Skinner but I've given up on only wanting to play 1 ruck.

brb going to 207

 

[CarterS]

Saw Rayner have an opportunity to kick for goal on his left, he tried to switch to his right and got tackled. Was about to post saying "Does Rayner have a left foot?" He answered my question later on with one of the kicks of the game off his left foot.

 

[Ralphy2017]

As good as Lester was in the first couple of games back he's fallen into his old pattern of not quite bringing the intensity required. Missed a couple of tackles reminiscent of the old Lester.

Yes Lester's form was against weaker opposition. When playing relatively mobile tall forwards, or powerfully built forwards I would be playing Payne. We need to see what he has, but it is a faster, taller, bigger version of Lester. Payne, like others back in Brisbane have been getting practice matches against other AFL squads. No reports on how he is going though. Also think Answerth should find a spot. Witho may now have to wait until Birchall is finished. As Fages has almost guaranteed there won't be any changes, so not sure if we will get to see Wooller, Ely, Sam, Ballenden, Payne etc this year. Hard to change a winning team, but I do think we could have better options in one or two spots.
Was a good win especially away from home, but needs to be tempered slightly in that GWS had a few key players missing. All we need now is to play Collingwood in the next few weeks without De Goey. Stating the obvious QLD home grown advantage, Lions will be extremely hard to beat.

 

[Back2Back2Back]

Well it was ‘just’ a 20 point win in the end but it was classy. There are so many times where GWS feels like that foster kid who loses their cool and resorts to dumb stuff or physical violence when things don’t go their way. Game plan failing? Just thump them a bit. Behind on the board? Throw some head high tackles in and really swing them around for good measure. Yeah that’ll learn ‘em. Free kick? Throw the ball way up high, or at their feet. Who cares, this is dumb anyway.

And once again, much like the Port game last year, we showed aggression when necessary but more importantly, didn’t lose our heads and continued to add scoreboard pressure While GWS opted to just try and butt heads. Suffer in ya jocks.

Rayner’s mark and goal is exactly what we want from someone with his capability and he delivered just that. From someone who once “cost us the game” with a relatively undisciplined snap on an easy goal to soaking up the pressure of that occasion, what a goal.
I did chortle pretty hard at the muppet on the AFL’s Facebook post asking why they’d bother putting a pic of him up on their post, since he’s nothing but a “flat track bully”. Nice one buddy. Have a high five. To the face. With a chair.

I love that we didn’t rely on a single player down forward. Yet another middle finger to anyone who said if Charlie doesn’t kick bags we don’t win. This is a massive transition from the end of last year and I feel one of the biggest things to come from 2020 so far because opposition teams really can’t look back to the last time we played for any clues.

I also noted that we are much more flexible with our on the field plan too, we are much better at forcing tempo changes, we are very happy to drive the ball back into the corridor coming out of defence but if the opportunity isn’t there then we won’t try and force it, instead we just adapt and take it down the wing. Remember a few years back with those ridiculously slow switches across half back? Or how we’d just try and keep possession at all cost, and either just do 20m chip kicks up the wing, and then kick backwards but forget to lead again to move forward? Or thinking even back further, to how we’d seem to ALWAYS handball back and across a congestion at least three times before a rushed kick which would inevitably lead to a turn over 30m away and a long kick back over our heads into our gaping open back 50? I’m getting a bit carried away now but far out it’s just so nice to walk away from a game against a team that played in a grand final last year with a comfortable win, and we’re now still not happy with certain nuances of the performance.

Oh and we’re equal short odds to take this year’s flag. That’s a big warm and fuzzy right there.

Go Lions

 

[AFLQLD]

The camera work on the TV coverage was as amateur as I have seen for a long while. On second viewing it seems like they pretty much completely missed one Lions goal. It felt like they had fewer cameras for a start. Then it felt like some of those cameras were operated by work experience kids or people with only a passing knowledge of the game. And then the vision switcher may have been either on their phone half the game or otherwise distracted. It all felt very 1980s.

Were they short-staffed, or just rubbish?

 

[AFLQLD]

I think the lesson we did learn from the Geelong game was about taking back control of the corridor. Last week Geelong was able to run through the middle and score quickly. This week, when they got on a run, we were able to regain control by cutting off the Giants game back through the centre of the field. It slowed them enough that we could force a turnover by making them kick to a contest with the kick going inside 50 or the kick just before that.

Additionally our spread from turnovers was very good. There was some end to end stuff a few times as both teams won turnovers in defence but we seemed to do better at making them pay, if not by scoring, at least by getting them bogged down deep in defence for minutes at a time. The last quarter especially they had to play fast through the corridor but we were able to make them take mostly slower options because of the forward 50 pressure.

 

[X AE A12]

Maybe in terms of stats their output might be similar but while our forwardline is functioning well there's no need to mess around with it on a bunch.

If Stef can ruck 85% of the match though I would drop Oscar for Skinner but I've given up on only wanting to play 1 ruck.

I agree about not messing around with our structure. We shouldn't and wouldn't do that. But I am interested in what advantages either Skinner or Ballenden would provide over Hipwood at times. I might add that I'm only considering questioning Hipwood role at the moment due to the efficacy of Mcinerney and McStay in their roles, the fact that Martin appears to have plenty left if fit, the success of our movement of the ball through the corridor and our depth of goalkickers.

For me it just boils down to, if McStay is effective up and around the ground, Mcinerney is making a contest, then what value would adding a Skinner or Ballenden give over Hipwood atm. Could Skinner take a flying pack mark where Hipwood is getting pushed out of the way, could Ballenden take the mark and convert with greater efficiency?

Hipwood will no doubt have a bright future I believe but right now we need ruthlessness and scoreboard dominance, we need to crush and wreck and I'm not getting that from Hipwoods spot atm but love it when he's up and going.

 

[Tom14]

I agree about not messing around with our structure. We shouldn't and wouldn't do that. But I am interested in what advantages either Skinner or Ballenden would provide over Hipwood at times. I might add that I'm only considering questioning Hipwood role at the moment due to the efficacy of Mcinerney and McStay in their roles, the fact that Martin appears to have plenty left if fit, the success of our movement of the ball through the corridor and our depth of goalkickers.

For me it just boils down to, if McStay is effective up and around the ground, Mcinerney is making a contest, then what value would adding a Skinner or Ballenden give over Hipwood atm. Could Skinner take a flying pack mark where Hipwood is getting pushed out of the way, could Ballenden take the mark and convert with greater efficiency?

Hipwood will no doubt have a bright future I believe but right now we need ruthlessness and scoreboard dominance, we need to crush and wreck and I'm not getting that from Hipwoods spot atm but love it when he's up and going.

My answer to both of those is probably not, and we'd lose a lot of other things in comparison.

There's a fair amount of overrating Skinner on this board I feel - everyone wants him to do well, but he has only played the one game which was less than 10 touches. There wasn't a great sign of him dominating up forward in the NEAFL last year either. I'd be more inclined to promote Fullarton and give him a game if we have an injury than go with Skinner or Ballenden.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Sensational post!

dis agree. If both keys are doing their job as directed by the line coach's & Fagan, they wont be taken out of the 22 unless injured. 3KZ & others can bang on about dropping either of them all they like almost every week but if you look at the runs on the board, we are travelling better than expected even without the recognition of a job well done:

2016: 17th
2017: 18th
2018:" 15th
2019: 2nd
Currently: 2nd

You cant achieve the above with players in the 22 that shouldn't be there...as some want.

 

[3KZ is Football]

dis agree. If both keys are doing their job as directed by the line coach's & Fagan, they wont be taken out of the 22 unless injured. 3KZ & others can bang on about dropping either of them all they like almost every week but if you look at the runs on the board, we are travelling better than expected even without the recognition of a job well done:

2016: 17th
2017: 18th
2018:" 15th
2019: 2nd
Currently: 2nd

You cant achieve the above with players in the 22 that shouldn't be there...as some want.

Went out in straight sets in 2019. In the SF against GWS which we lost by three points we were +17 on inside 50’s (61 - 44). The point I and others have been making is that we still have a ‘next step’ to take and that involves improvement in our forward line. We have our defence right and our midfield is the best in the competition, but complacency about our forward line will stop us becoming truly elite.

 

[chopperduck]

We are still rapidly improving. Previous years that Geelong game would have scared us, we immediately bounced back, and did it against good opposition.

 

[X AE A12]

My answer to both of those is probably not, and we'd lose a lot of other things in comparison.

There's a fair amount of overrating Skinner on this board I feel - everyone wants him to do well, but he has only played the one game which was less than 10 touches. There wasn't a great sign of him dominating up forward in the NEAFL last year either. I'd be more inclined to promote Fullarton and give him a game if we have an injury than go with Skinner or Ballenden.

I think it's those glimpses from Skinner that prompt the conversation, and he would no doubt need to really have an impact to be a consistent inclusion. I don't think anyones really saying much more than that they wouldn't mind a look. Ballenden too seems to be hit and miss too so you can certainly see why he isn't commanding regular consideration, again just putting it out there. Was planning on getting to more neafl and scratch matches this year and would love to be able to offer more than supposition. Will watch with keen interest if Fullerton gets a shot.

dis agree. If both keys are doing their job as directed by the line coach's & Fagan, they wont be taken out of the 22 unless injured. 3KZ & others can bang on about dropping either of them all they like almost every week but if you look at the runs on the board, we are travelling better than expected even without the recognition of a job well done:

2016: 17th
2017: 18th
2018:" 15th
2019: 2nd
Currently: 2nd

You cant achieve the above with players in the 22 that shouldn't be there...as some want.

Again no ones talking about 'dropping' anyone, from my perspective it's interesting to contemplate the differences and nuances that player x might offer over player y ceterus paribus. The point of my post was that no ones really banging on except those who seem bent on stifling any conversation around the matter by quoting the role, the plan, the coaches unabridged position on the matter (where can I find this), and pointing out other bleeding obvious things that everyone universally agrees on.

BORING

 

[Gadzorks]

Defence or attack?

attack. Live Hippy and Mc stay roaming, and Charlie is electric when off the chain but think we need a big bull cf to sit at the top of the square and treat the opposition defence as bowling pins