AFL Autopsy RND 18: Loss Against The Demons

[Yoda_]

that's on you. we've had 3 good wins this season (Bulldogs, GWS, Collingwood) against teams that are on the edge of the top eight, some very close wins over some whatever teams (Crows, Saints) and then 4 victories over North, Richmond and WC (X2) that were deeply disappointing performances despite the wins. If you consistency struggle to defeat truly horrid teams, that's a pretty good sign you're not doing much better than them. and that's fine for the reasons ant has lined out. this team isn't particularly good and they've not shown that they are. so why think they are

I'll own that ive been misled big time. Even 4 goals down with 7 minutes to go I still held hope

 

[Phone]

that's on you. we've had 3 good wins this season (Bulldogs, GWS, Collingwood) against teams that are on the edge of the top eight, some very close wins over some whatever teams (Crows, Saints) and then 4 victories over North, Richmond and WC (X2) that were deeply disappointing performances despite the wins. If you consistency struggle to defeat truly horrid teams, that's a pretty good sign you're not doing much better than them. and that's fine for the reasons ant has lined out. this team isn't particularly good and they've not shown that they are. so why think they are

(our other victory is R1 win against the Hawks in which we kicked 17.5 to their 11.17)

 

[Vindicater]

We play a high possession game. No shit it won't work in the wet.

 

[srobbo]

That was as lame limp dick performance as I’ve seen all year. I seriously have no words but I’m not surpised what I witnessed either.

If Brad wants to keep playing plodders like Heppell & Kelly then we’ll get more of this shit like tonight. No Gawn or Trac, seriously we are a ****ing joke.

 

[MiguelM]

There is a lot of plain dumb shit we do that must be killing the coaching group . I wonder exactly how smart we really are. How many times in a game can we go all in to a contest only to see opposition players clear the footy . Happens all the time. We rush in and try and make a 4 or 2 or similar only to have 2 blokes in a position that has no effect on the game either way. Classics example in the last quarter. Ball comes down the ground to a Draper marking contest. We have 5 on 2 yet we still manage to be out of position and all on one side. Ball spills to the other side where Caleb Windsor has held his spot. Ball cleared.
Even the two on two contests. There was one in the last quarter where Langford left his guy to go to a nothing spot that was no help offensively and allowed the Melbourne player to just run past and get a handball.

Yep, Scott was seething at the presser. No way the coaching group wanted us to play that possession game in these conditions.

The easy transition goals infuriated Scott.

In the 80s we would be swimming in the bay at 5 in the morning.

 

[ant555]

I pointed out the club has given me hope hat things have changed. We had a good win last week which gave not just me but some Essendon supporters hope that we could actually turn up and put in a shift tonight and get the job done. It didn't happen.

Scott was outreached tonight, selection is starting to resemble those late 2000's, early 2010's teams with little reward to the kids at the lower level papering over cracks with wins yet when the heat is applied we fall over.

Its been the same shit for 20 years mate, even you can acknowledge that tonight was probably the best chance at showing the wider AFL community that things have changed?

It is the same shit which is why I do not trust them and why I have been saying we need more speed off half back. A decent KPF. Some good small forwards. A ruck that can mark and not make bone head errors. I could not give a **** about showing the wider AFL community we have changed as I know we are not in the window. I am not stepping out on the ledge. It is why I posted one game at a time in the run to the finals thread. It has zero importance to me what everyone else thinks. I have a position on where we are at. I think we are more a 8th to 12th side than a top 6. I think we are maybe 2 or 3 years away from maybe being a solid football side if they keep turning over the list and the players keep buying in and pushing things along. If I am wrong then fine but I will just enjoy the wins when they come and when games like tonight happen I will be disappointed but I will know it is the level we are at.
I am not happy about it but it is what it is. You do not have the results we have had for 20 years and expect the new coach who has specifically been appointed to work on changing the culture and professionalism to have things humming in the second year. Even more so when he had limited chances to change the list for the first year and the first year was actually about observation and making changes for the second pre season.
It is not a quick fix. You can not **** things up for 20 years and allow a weak culture to build within and think that the next regime can fix it in under two years.
Selection is what it is. Do I agree with it all ? No. Do we have all the info ? No. I do know there is a lot more to it right now than just the game on the weekend. Right now there is a fine line between picking the side based on game plan buy in and off field preparation and match sim v actual game output and it can go wrong quickly.
I think we went too tall today. Harry and Cox on a wing was never going to work in the wet. Wright was never going to be a factor in the wet. Selection was not ideal but the list is not ideal either.

 

[Yoda_]

It is the same shit which is why I do not trust them and why I have been saying we need more speed off half back. A decent KPF. Some good small forwards. A ruck that can mark and not make bone head errors. I could not give a **** about showing the wider AFL community we have changed as I know we are not in the window. I am not stepping out on the ledge. It is why I posted one game at a time in the run to the finals thread. It has zero importance to me what everyone else thinks. I have a position on where we are at. I think we are more a 8th to 12th side than a top 6. I think we are maybe 2 or 3 years away from maybe being a solid football side if they keep turning over the list and the players keep buying in and pushing things along. If I am wrong then fine but I will just enjoy the wins when they come and when games like tonight happen I will be disappointed but I will know it is the level we are at.
I am not happy about it but it is what it is. You do not have the results we have had for 20 years and expect the new coach who has specifically been appointed to work on changing the culture and professionalism to have things humming in the second year. Even more so when he had limited chances to change the list for the first year and the first year was actually about observation and making changes for the second pre season.
It is not a quick fix. You can not **** things up for 20 years and allow a weak culture to build within and think that the next regime can fix it in under two years.
Selection is what it is. Do I agree with it all ? No. Do we have all the info ? No. I do know there is a lot more to it right now than just the game on the weekend. Right now there is a fine line between picking the side based on game plan buy in and off field preparation and match sim v actual game output and it can go wrong quickly.
I think we went too tall today. Harry and Cox on a wing was never going to work in the wet. Wright was never going to be a factor in the wet. Selection was not ideal but the list is not ideal either.

I agree with pretty much most of this.

Unfortunately I don't trust the club o make tough calls on list management as an example. Heppell should have an honest conversation with the club. Ditto Goldstein. We need to not be romantic with Wanganeen as an example either. If you truly want to be ruthless, have a conversation with Zach Reid saying look, this is how it is, what are your thoughts. Give him and us an opportunity to succeed.

I have been on record, before and during the season that we have a bottom 4 squad depth. Surprised me how well we have stayed in games, even when losing, bar half a quarter v Sydney and a half versus Geelong, the whole game v Port we have nearly always been in games. I just want to trust us.

 

[ant555]

I agree with pretty much most of this.

Unfortunately I don't trust the club o make tough calls on list management as an example. Heppell should have an honest conversation with the club. Ditto Goldstein. We need to not be romantic with Wanganeen as an example either. If you truly want to be ruthless, have a conversation with Zach Reid saying look, this is how it is, what are your thoughts. Give him and us an opportunity to succeed.

I have been on record, before and during the season that we have a bottom 4 squad depth. Surprised me how well we have stayed in games, even when losing, bar half a quarter v Sydney and a half versus Geelong, the whole game v Port we have nearly always been in games. I just want to trust us.

If you think we have bottom 4 depth then I would say Do not trust .
We have made some improvement on last year. Our overall fitness is better. The defensive system has been better but is still a work in progress.
I do not trust as I keep singing the same song.
Rucks that can not mark.
KP forwards that can not mark.
No fast small forwards.
Need more speed at half back.
As far as the club making tough calls all I can do is accept there has been a massive change in who is calling the shots in the football department in the last two years. New coach. New GM of football. New CEO who is a football person and not a money man. New list manager. Maybe we could go a new head of recruiting as well. Nothing is a guarantee . These guys could **** it up too but they are different guys.

 

[Yoda_]

If you think we have bottom 4 depth then I would say Do not trust .
We have made some improvement on last year. Our overall fitness is better. The defensive system has been better but is still a work in progress.
I do not trust as I keep singing the same song.
Rucks that can not mark.
KP forwards that can not mark.
No fast small forwards.
Need more speed at half back.
As far as the club making tough calls all I can do is accept there has been a massive change in who is calling the shots in the football department in the last two years. New coach. New GM of football. New CEO who is a football person and not a money man. New list manager. Maybe we could go a new head of recruiting as well. Nothing is a guarantee . These guys could **** it up too but they are different guys.

to be fair across all arguments. whoever was brought in post truck needed to have the balls to stand up to the people who have controlled the football club for the last 20 years. I do believe you when you've mentioned he is doing just that. I just hope we actually act on it and the wheel does actually shift enough to get us out of this myriad of mediocrity we've been stuck in for 20 years.

 

[ant555]

to be fair across all arguments. whoever was brought in post truck needed to have the balls to stand up to the people who have controlled the football club for the last 20 years. I do believe you when you've mentioned he is doing just that. I just hope we actually act on it and the wheel does actually shift enough to get us out of this myriad of mediocrity we've been stuck in for 20 years.

Well the first step was to get a CEO who is more about what happens on the field . Unlike the past where it was about the bottom line and making sure we could make a profit after the saga. Who knows how long it will take.

 

[Vander18]

Got beaten up around the footy, just like Geelong game. Too few prepared to get low, attack the footy and absorb contact. Non-selection of Setterfield continues to mystify.

Two things that stuck out were (1) players being bees to the honeypot while opponents held their position which left us vulnerable out the back and (2) some very strange positioning from defenders inside 50.

Re the latter…..why our defenders so often play front shoulder when one out inside 50 baffles me.

Anyway, expectations returned and we shat the bed. Rinse and repeat. Time for changes - Perkins and Wright need to go.

 

[Snake Charmer]

That is not what I am saying. it is one thing to be critical of the side.

When someone uses the line "It is the hope that kills me" then people are not living in the real world if in some threads they are raising legitimate questions about some players and then in the match day threads they meltdown because we are not good enough . Well what is the outcome going to be ?
The real world is to realize where the list is at and at what stage of the build under Scott is at . Unrealistic expectations lead to a lot of melting.
And if I want to have a dig at someone I know and have had many football conversations with on and off the forum I will.

At some point when the team has a chance to be 2nd heading into late July there needs to be an expectation. I feel like copping this performance on the chin and using the 8 year plan thing is classic Essendon mentally and nothing but a cop out. Tell that to the players or the coaching staff. You’d be laughed at. Last night was disappointing and everyone has a right to be disappointed. If we drop down the ladder now we can all enjoy the 8 year plan

 

[Squeaky]

As soon as the team was read on Thursday and Melbourne didn't select a ruck, I wondered 'what do they know that we don't?'
The weather isn't a secret!
Did we have ruck dominance for the team we picked? Unfortunately no!
Piss weak!
We played pretty, soft, non competitive footy and got what we deserved.
There are a few frauds in the team.
Not getting into 2nd on the ladder is probably a blessing.

 

[ant555]

At some point when the team has a chance to be 2nd heading into late July there needs to be an expectation. I feel like copping this performance on the chin and using the 8 year plan thing is classic Essendon mentally and nothing but a cop out. Tell that to the players or the coaching staff. You’d be laughed at. Last night was disappointing and everyone has a right to be disappointed. If we drop down the ladder now we can all enjoy the 8 year plan

I am disappointed . I would love to be top 4 but I am also realistic and know how it works. It is not a cop out . It is what it is. I have continually said that they have to believe inside the 4 walls of the club. If you do not believe as a player then you are pretty much no value to the club.
Like I said before. You can be disappointed or angry but if you are also posting in other threads questioning the ability of the players most of the season then you should expect that last night can happen. That is my point to Yoda.

Who knows how long it will take. 3 years . 5 years . 8 years . All I know is that you do not simply flick a switch after 20 years and multiple coaches and it will all happen in the second year of the next guy. It is a process that takes time. It is not a Collingwood situation where they needed a new voice . They where a club that had played in a GF and won finals in the recent past.
Richmond and Melbourne in recent years all took a long time to build to a flag. Richmond and Melbourne 7 plus years under their premiership winning coaches after years of multiple coaches and several rebuilds. Melbourne had two players left on their list that had been there when Goodwin / Roos / Taylor and Mahoney started in the GF winning year.

People do not have to be happy about it but it is what it is .

 

[ant555]

Got beaten up around the footy, just like Geelong game. Too few prepared to get low, attack the footy and absorb contact. Non-selection of Setterfield continues to mystify.

Two things that stuck out were (1) players being bees to the honeypot while opponents held their position which left us vulnerable out the back and (2) some very strange positioning from defenders inside 50.

Re the latter…..why our defenders so often play front shoulder when one out inside 50 baffles me.

Anyway, expectations returned and we shat the bed. Rinse and repeat. Time for changes - Perkins and Wright need to go.

The seagull on a chip factor is annoying . Happens all the time. Duursma is almost the only bloke who knows how to stay away from a contest when the numbers are even. I do suspect their is an over correction factor where players think they are doing the right thing and trying to pressure but it hurts us all the time.

As for the defenders. Everyone sets up to intercept and then we just run off and chance the footy and leave players loose inside 50. It is not just an Essendon thing as such but we are guilty of doing it a lot. Ridley was a prime example . Made a lot of great interceptions but on a wet night he also cost us a number of time by leaving his man and not taking the mark or effecting the contest . Defense in the AFL is a strange beast now days that really has too many parts / actions in a team sense.

 

[MiguelM]

I think we must look at the weather a week out and start planning. Was going to be dry until last couple of days.

Maybe Setterfield and Hobbs for Wright and one of Cox, Jones or Caddy, even if they are not killing it in the VFL, would have suited conditions better.

It is a fine line but Melb in the middle of winter with fronts approaching should be a red flag.

 

[ant555]

I think we must look at the weather a week out and start planning. Was going to be dry until last couple of days.

Maybe Setterfield and Hobbs for Wright and one of Cox, Jones or Caddy, even if they are not killing it in the VFL, would have suited conditions better.

It is a fine line but Melb in the middle of winter with fronts approaching should be a red flag.

Agree with this. Needed a couple of hard at the contest players rather than tall wings and multiple tall forwards.

 

[MiguelM]

The seagull on a chip factor is annoying . Happens all the time. Duursma is almost the only bloke who knows how to stay away from a contest when the numbers are even. I do suspect their is an over correction factor where players think they are doing the right thing and trying to pressure but it hurts us all the time.

As for the defenders. Everyone sets up to intercept and then we just run off and chance the footy and leave players loose inside 50. It is not just an Essendon thing as such but we are guilty of doing it a lot. Ridley was a prime example . Made a lot of great interceptions but on a wet night he also cost us a number of time by leaving his man and not taking the mark or effecting the contest . Defense in the AFL is a strange beast now days that really has too many parts / actions in a team sense.

Yeah, we need to stay put sometimes. Even the Tigers at the height of forward running chaos ball still had a wall back to defend a turnover.

Last night's conditions meant turnovers were a much higher possiblilty and yet we tried to run the ball through handball chains where a kick to advantage should have been the option.

The goals out the back were awful. Was like watching the little league at times.

Hopefully the coaches highlight this. Scott was ropeable at the presser on this so should be a focus.

 

[TheGrizz]

It is becoming painfully obvious (that is, if it wasnt already) that we havent grasped the mentality and maturity that genuine top 4 sides have.

Whether it being the inability to move on from poor umpiring decisions (Jones mark, Langford non-free) to just not being able to adjust to changing conditions fast enough, we just dont behave like a genuine finals contender should.

Part of the reason we cant play wet weather football, particularly last night, is that opposition teams clearly have a set up and style that they go to in these situations. We dont, we seem to think we can just play our normal way with a couple of tweaks until its too late.

We absolutely let one slip last night.

 

[ghostdog]

Gutless performance. Wheels about to fall off for the season.

Really, I think this first part is correct. We didn't want to be out there tonight because it was too wet and cold. Melbourne wanted the win while we were fraudulent, half-arsed and gutless.

 

[jarka11]

wet weather promotes the kind of contested footy that is required to play and win finals and for numerous reasons as mentioned in this threads posts. so we are clearly not a trully finals side yet and hard list calls have to be made if we are ever to advance as a club

 

[dank420_]

I'll own that ive been misled big time. Even 4 goals down with 7 minutes to go I still held hope

Yoda, support the club how you wanna. Don’t listen to those sad campaigners

 

[Howard Moon]

We play a high possession game. No shit it won't work in the wet.

Think it was the perfect storm, no pun.

We play a high posession game.

Everyone knows you don't bomb it in long and high to the Melbourne defence.

But it's raining, you just need to gain territory and bomb it as long as you can....no we can't do that that helps Melbourne, we need to use hands to change the angles...no we can't do that it's far too wet to toy with the ball. From there we probably just showed we aren't very adaptable or a team with much IQ.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Astonishing how a club can be worst wet weather team for 20 consecutive years

 

[bommer16]

They are simply not ready.
The team is not complete.

One trick pony game plan that doesn’t suit outdoors only marvel. Throw in opp pressure and it’s like kryptonite to the current 22.