Random Chat Thread VIII (Aka the world politics shitfight thread)

[Ligma]

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[The Dark]

Also, in support of my point;

Why did Saudi Arabia launch attacks in Yemen?
What precipitated it?
Who were they targeting?
Who was backing and supporting the group that the Saudis targeted?

You know the answer to all of these questions.

Carrying water for an openly anti Semitic state that wouldn't admit you that's run by murderous ghouls who routinely execute the slaves they use and attacks its neighbours.

All because for some reason or other you chose sides in a shitty long running ethnic civil war over whether people in cities you'll never visit should speak one language or another.

When those same questions are asked re Russia attacking its neighbour, things are different lol. Out come the italics to prove it was an unprovoked invasion.

It's truly weird. But amusing.

Saudi Arabia isn't as bad as Russia lololololololololololololol.



"Yes Viktor, great success, Vladimir won't throw our babies out a window now!"

 

[The Dark]

It is quite fascinating to recall what imperial functionaries like McFaul were saying immediatley after the SAUDI attack on the United on 9/11

Russian President Vladimir Putin was one of the first foreign leaders to speak directly to President Bush. In that phone call, he expressed his condolences to the president and the American people and his unequivocal support for whatever reactions the American president might decide to take. He then followed this rhetorical support with concrete policies.

U.S.-Russia Relations After September 11, 2001

Putin's pro-American plan was not simply tactical. Putin's policies of support after September 11, including his agreement to an American military presence in Central Asia, represented a significant shift in Russian foreign policy. The potential for breakthrough - for a fundamentally new and...

carnegieendowment.org

But yeah, Putin is a worse influence on the global stage than the SAUDIS who continue to fund and arm jihadist groups all around the world.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Carrying water for an openly anti Semitic state that wouldn't admit you that's run by murderous ghouls who routinely execute the slaves they use and attacks its neighbours.

All because for some reason or other you chose sides in a shitty long running ethnic civil war over whether people in cities you'll never visit should speak one language or another.

When those same questions are asked re Russia attacking its neighbour, things are different lol. Out come the italics to prove it was an unprovoked invasion.

It's truly weird. But amusing.

Saudi Arabia isn't as bad as Russia lololololololololololololol.

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"Yes Viktor, great success, Vladimir won't throw our babies out a window now!"

You think the invasion of Ukraine by Russia is a civil war? Am I understanding you correctly?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Chadwiko]

Not sure how many times I have to write "I am not defending those countries".

It is telling how personally offended you get when I say that Russia is worse than them though.

 

[ferball]

The United States has sanctions on Russia and Iran for... pretty obvious reasons. (They're not the only country that sanctions these nations though, with the UK and EU having similar sanctions).

Venezuela sanctions are a little more complicated, but still reasonably easy to understand when you look at the situation with Maduro.

Saudi, Qatar, and Kuwait are problematic countries for sure, especially in terms of human rights and democratic freedoms.

But it would be intellectually dishonest to suggest they're on some sort of equal footing with Russia and Iran.

This "fun fact" raised out of nowhere seems to just be a thinly veiled reason to defend Russia and attack the US for... reasons?

Dude the leader of Saudi Arabia cut up a journalist with a bone saw cos he was the only actual material witness to who funded 9/11.

 

[ferball]

Again, I'll repeat myself;

I'm not defending those countries. I've acknowledged repeatedly how problematic they are.

Russia and Iran are more disruptive and dangerous on the global stage. That's just a fact.

Disruptive and Dangerous to the New World Order.

 

[Chadwiko]

Dude the leader of Saudi Arabia cut up a journalist with a bone saw cos he was the only actual material witness to who funded 9/11.

Yes, and once again; I am not defending those countries.

If I was going to do a ranking of "bad" countries, then Saudi Arabia would be right near the top.

Maybe even outright 3rd.

Behind Iran 2, and overwhelmingly #1 Russia.

This list doesn't include the horrific crackdowns on any political dissidents, the numerous Russians who have "fallen out of a window" or died in mysterious circumstances after challenging Putin, the sending of political opponents like Navalny to prison work camps until they die, and so on and so forth...

Invaded Moldova ‘92
Second Chechen War '99
Flattened Grozny ‘99
Polonium tea in UK ‘06
Cyber attack devastates Estonia ‘07
Invaded Georgia ‘08
Invaded Crimea & Eastern Ukraine ‘14
Downed MH17 2014
Backs Assad and devastates Syria 2015-24
Novicok 2018
Invaded Eastern Ukraine 2022-
Downed J2-8243 2024

The list also doesn't include the Wagner Group's African deployments either.

Trying to sit here and pretend Russia aren't overwhelmingly the most aggressive and globally disruptive force of the last 20 years is ridiculous.

 

[bengrina]

Yes, and once again; I am not defending those countries.

If I was going to do a ranking of "bad" countries, then Saudi Arabia would be right near the top.

Maybe even outright 3rd.

Behind Iran 2, and overwhelmingly #1 Russia.

This list doesn't include the horrific crackdowns on any political dissidents, the numerous Russians who have "fallen out of a window" or died in mysterious circumstances after challenging Putin, the sending of political opponents like Navalny to prison work camps until they die, and so on and so forth...

Invaded Moldova ‘92
Second Chechen War '99
Flattened Grozny ‘99
Polonium tea in UK ‘06
Cyber attack devastates Estonia ‘07
Invaded Georgia ‘08
Invaded Crimea & Eastern Ukraine ‘14
Downed MH17 2014
Backs Assad and devastates Syria 2015-24
Novicok 2018
Invaded Eastern Ukraine 2022-

The list also doesn't include the Wagner Group's African deployments either.

Trying to sit here and pretend Russia aren't overwhelmingly the most aggressive and globally disruptive force of the last 20 years is ridiculous.

Where’s the genocidal state of Israel on your listed rankings?

 

[Chadwiko]

Where’s the genocidal state of Israel on your listed rankings?

I dunno. Somewhere around 4th-7th. I've never actually sat down and 'ranked' countries by badness. I don't have a prepared list anywhere, other than to say that Russia and Iran are an obvious #1 and #2.

 

[Liam Boy]

Yes, and once again; I am not defending those countries.

If I was going to do a ranking of "bad" countries, then Saudi Arabia would be right near the top.

Maybe even outright 3rd.

Behind Iran 2, and overwhelmingly #1 Russia.

This list doesn't include the horrific crackdowns on any political dissidents, the numerous Russians who have "fallen out of a window" or died in mysterious circumstances after challenging Putin, the sending of political opponents like Navalny to prison work camps until they die, and so on and so forth...

Invaded Moldova ‘92
Second Chechen War '99
Flattened Grozny ‘99
Polonium tea in UK ‘06
Cyber attack devastates Estonia ‘07
Invaded Georgia ‘08
Invaded Crimea & Eastern Ukraine ‘14
Downed MH17 2014
Backs Assad and devastates Syria 2015-24
Novicok 2018
Invaded Eastern Ukraine 2022-
Downed J2-8243 2024

The list also doesn't include the Wagner Group's African deployments either.

Trying to sit here and pretend Russia aren't overwhelmingly the most aggressive and globally disruptive force of the last 20 years is ridiculous.

Sorry but #1 with a bullet is AmeriKKKa. If you think Russia is the only country where political dissidents are assassinated under suspicious circumstances, look into the organisers of the Ferguson BLM uprising.

I don't need to tell you about all of America's terrible and destructive invasions of foreign countries since you read the news.

 

[Chadwiko]

Sorry but #1 with a bullet is AmeriKKKa.

I knew people here would try and make that claim, but it's really not.

And this isn't about defending the US either.

The Iraq invasion was illegal, awful, and unnecessary. I never supported it.
Afghanistan was more complicated, and slightly more justifiable, given the context in which it occurred. But then they stayed for far too long and botched the withdrawal horribly too, handing back power to the Taliban.

America would be in the top 10 of my 'rankings', almost definitely. So again, I'm not defending any countries here.

But America simply is not on the level of Russia and Iran by any quantifiable metric. They just aren't.

You have to twist yourself into knots with mental gymnastics to suggest otherwise.

 

[ferball]

Yes, and once again; I am not defending those countries.

If I was going to do a ranking of "bad" countries, then Saudi Arabia would be right near the top.

Maybe even outright 3rd.

Behind Iran 2, and overwhelmingly #1 Russia.

This list doesn't include the horrific crackdowns on any political dissidents, the numerous Russians who have "fallen out of a window" or died in mysterious circumstances after challenging Putin, the sending of political opponents like Navalny to prison work camps until they die, and so on and so forth...

Invaded Moldova ‘92
Second Chechen War '99
Flattened Grozny ‘99
Polonium tea in UK ‘06
Cyber attack devastates Estonia ‘07
Invaded Georgia ‘08
Invaded Crimea & Eastern Ukraine ‘14
Downed MH17 2014
Backs Assad and devastates Syria 2015-24
Novicok 2018
Invaded Eastern Ukraine 2022-
Downed J2-8243 2024

The list also doesn't include the Wagner Group's African deployments either.

Trying to sit here and pretend Russia aren't overwhelmingly the most aggressive and globally disruptive force of the last 20 years is ridiculous.

This is frankly garbage.

Russia didn't invade Moldova. There was a civil war because Transnistria didn't want to be part of Moldova before Moldova even declared independence from the USSR.

You absolutely the seppo equivalent of tankie. You're a ****en Yankie!!!! Or is that w ankie?

 

[Chadwiko]

Russia didn't invade Moldova. There was a civil war because Transnistria didn't want to be part of Moldova before Moldova even declared independence from the USSR.

True or false, Ferby;

There was a civil war in Moldova in 1992. Russia intervened, supported Transnistria, and sent troops. Despite the conflict ending in 1992 and Transnistria remaining sovereign territory of Moldova, Russia maintained troops there ever since, even until today.

A simple 'true' or 'false' is all I'm looking for.

You absolutely the seppo equivalent of tankie. You're a ****en Yankie!!!! Or is that w ankie?

I'd rather by a Yankie than a Tankie.

 

[ferball]

I knew people here would try and make that claim, but it's really not.

And this isn't about defending the US either.

The Iraq invasion was illegal, awful, and unnecessary. I never supported it.
Afghanistan was more complicated, and slightly more justifiable, given the context in which it occurred. But then they stayed for far too long and botched the withdrawal horribly too, handing back power to the Taliban.

America would be in the top 10 of my 'rankings', almost definitely. So again, I'm not defending any countries here.

But America simply is not on the level of Russia and Iran by any quantifiable metric. They just aren't.

You have to twist yourself into knots with mental gymnastics to suggest otherwise.

American sanction killed half a million Iraqi children in the 90s. Before they got serious about blowing the country up!!

The US has the biggest body count on the planet.

"Ohh but Putin's worse.."

How many public slave markets did Putin start?

How many Pan Arabic, Pan African movements did the US end?

You want to criticise Putin ... fine just Putin it in context (Putin intended.)

IE just say he's not as bad as the US is. Just admit it.

US presidents have carte blanche these days and yet Joe ****en Biden didn't even have the balls to pardon Leonard Peltier (look him up Chad) at the end of his life so he could spend the last few years he had on country.

 

[Liam Boy]

I knew people here would try and make that claim, but it's really not.

And this isn't about defending the US either.

The Iraq invasion was illegal, awful, and unnecessary. I never supported it.
Afghanistan was more complicated, and slightly more justifiable, given the context in which it occurred. But then they stayed for far too long and botched the withdrawal horribly too, handing back power to the Taliban.

America would be in the top 10 of my 'rankings', almost definitely. So again, I'm not defending any countries here.

But America simply is not on the level of Russia and Iran by any quantifiable metric. They just aren't.

You have to twist yourself into knots with mental gymnastics to suggest otherwise.

I don't give a **** whether you supported it, it happened, America did it. We're not talking about whether you supported their decisions. Between Iraq and Afghanistan they killed 3-4 hundred thousand people.

America is currently bankrolling a genocide, until the ceasefire goes into effect (and it's not as if that will be the end of Israel's permanent intent and practice of genocide against the Palestinians, which America will presumably support for the forseeable future, only the end of this specific ethnic cleansing campaign). The most conservative estimates put the death toll at about 60,000, which is only an accounting of violent deaths from Israeli weapons, not including others such as deaths of preventable illness due to cutting off of all medical supplies and the deliberate campaign of hospital destruction, which also lead to things like babies dying in incubators, starvation due to the deliberately inflicted famine, deaths caused by a lack of clean water sources, people freezing to death in their tents because all the residential buildings have been destroyed, you get it. It will probably be years before we have a real understanding of the enormity of this crime.

Russia has never done anything approaching this in my life or yours. The best estimate of civlian casualties from the war in Ukraine is apparently 40,000. 40,000 too many, 40,000 people who absolutely should not have died and it's Russia's fault, but that's a very big difference. I really don't think it's comparable to the evil the United States exports to the world, and I haven't even gotten into things like the Cuba embargo, or all their domestic abuses like the massive for-profit prison system and rampant structurally-enabled police brutality.

I don't like Russia. I don't support Russia. But they simply do not have the raw power the United States does to infect the world with misery, and they don't have the runs on the board.

 

[Val Keating]

Genocide Joe. That’s his legacy. I thought the dementia situation would be what framed his legacy, but no, he’s Genocide Joe.

 

[ferball]

True or false, Ferby;

There was a civil war in Moldova in 1992. Russia intervened, supported Transnistria, and sent troops. Despite the conflict ending in 1992 and Transnistria remaining sovereign territory of Moldova, Russia maintained troops there ever since, even until today.

A simple 'true' or 'false' is all I'm looking for.

That's false.

The civil war started in 1990, the Russian Troops were sent there as part of a Moldovan-Russian peace keeping force after a cease fire was signed. That cease fire has heeld since and Transnistra effectively operates as an independent state.

I'd rather by a Yankie than a Tankie.

You're both, Wankie

 

[Val Keating]

I deliberately stayed away from this thread to let the people that want to discuss random nonsense (and I’m not disparaging that, it’s fun) because I didn’t want to turn it into another thread about serious issues and eventually having it locked. But damn, here we go again

 

[ferball]

I knew people here would try and make that claim, but it's really not.

And this isn't about defending the US either.

The Iraq invasion was illegal, awful, and unnecessary. I never supported it.
Afghanistan was more complicated, and slightly more justifiable, given the context in which it occurred. But then they stayed for far too long and botched the withdrawal horribly too, handing back power to the Taliban.

America would be in the top 10 of my 'rankings', almost definitely. So again, I'm not defending any countries here.

But America simply is not on the level of Russia and Iran by any quantifiable metric. They just aren't.

You have to twist yourself into knots with mental gymnastics to suggest otherwise.

How about dead civilians Chad?

Since the end of the USSR and the beginning of the existence of Russia who is responsible for more dead civilians?

What about total deaths? Has Russia killed 4-5 million people? Cos your mates have.

What about removal of sovereign regimes?

What about the theft of resources?

The funding of terrorist groups in Africa?

The prevention of attempts to build a world wide effort against Global Warming?

We all know its the US.

By all of those metrics the US is the worst nation to exist since the fall of the USSR or even since WW2.

 

[Chadwiko]

People arguing against Russia being #1, especially since the year 2000~, are just straight up kidding themselves.

I'm sorry, but there's no other way to put it.

You are denying reality to suggest anything else.

Yeah, America has been bad and done shitty things. Same with Israel. Same with China. Same with North Korea. Same with Iran. Same with Iraq under Saddam. Same with a bunch of other countries with shitty histories, shitty policies, and shitty systems of oppression.

For like the 10th time; I am not defending these countries when I say Russia is #1.

 

[Chadwiko]

That's false.

The civil war started in 1990, the Russian Troops were sent there as part of a Moldovan-Russian peace keeping force after a cease fire was signed. That cease fire has heeld since and Transnistra effectively operates as an independent state.

Yes but Russia didn't send troops until 1992.

And by the way, Moldovans absolutely consider Russia's intervention in the civil war as an 'invasion', and many of them think Russia still has plans to invade them again after the Ukraine conflict ends.

 

[Val Keating]

That’s the most ridiculously outrageous view I have read in this entire thread in the last 18 months.

Just imagine how evil someone would have to be to facilitate a genocide and then just to look good as they leave office push for a ceasefire.

The genocide has been going on for about 2 years now, shit, just last week the Biden administration sold $8B in weapons to Israel, probably about 70k people dead, many more displaced, and because he (if it’s even him tbh, the blokes brain is ****ed) he’s worried about his image he pretends to care? Hey Joe, America could’ve stopped aiding the genocide a year ago.

 

[Val Keating]

Didn't Biden just approve an additional $8 Billion in weapons for Israel or am I being misinformed?

Yup

 

[Chadwiko]

What about removal of sovereign regimes? - Georgia? Ukraine? Moldova? You think they haven't done/attempted this?

What about the theft of resources? - Russia is literally stealing Sudanese gold to help fund the Ukraine war

The funding of terrorist groups in Africa? - Do you think the Wagner Group in Africa is there on a holiday?

The prevention of attempts to build a world wide effort against Global Warming? - Russia vetoed the United Nations first ever UNSC resolution that attempted to declare climate change a threat to international security.

Russia has done literally all of these things post-USSR collapse lol.

What world are you living in where you think they haven't?!