Random Chat Thread VIII (Aka the world politics shitfight thread)

[ferball]

Yes but Russia didn't send troops until 1992.

Yes as part of the peace keeping force with Moldova after a cease fire agreement. By those standards I had mates who were involved in the Australian invasion of Rwanda.

And by the way, Moldovans absolutely consider Russia's intervention in the civil war as an 'invasion', and many of them think Russia still has plans to invade them again after the Ukraine conflict ends.

They probably don't consider what they were doing was ethnic cleansing either.

 

[Chadwiko]

Yes as part of the peace keeping force with Moldova after a cease fire agreement. By those standards I had mates who were involved in the Australian invasion of Rwanda.

You've got your facts wrong there I think mate.

 

[ferball]

Georgia? Ukraine? Moldova? You think they haven't done/attempted this?

All of those regimes are still in place.

Russia is literally stealing Sudanese gold to help fund the Ukraine war

The US is literally stealing Syrian, Libyan and Iraqi Oil

Do you think the Wagner Group in Africa is there on a holiday?

Well Sheeze went there for a holiday.

Russia vetoed the United Nations first ever UNSC resolution that attempted to declare climate change a threat to international security.

Yes now see this point:

But America simply is not on the level of Russia and Iran by any quantifiable metric. They just aren't.

You have to twist yourself into knots with mental gymnastics to suggest otherwise.

By all of those metrics the US is worse.

I'm not Russia hasn't done that stuff. It obviously has.

I'm the US has also done it and done it on a greater scale!!!

IE Its worse by those metrics.

You're the one doing the mental gymnastics here.

Chad:

I'm not saying the British Empire was good but those Germans in Papua New Guinea ... they were something else.

 

[Val Keating]

Yes, and once again; I am not defending those countries.

If I was going to do a ranking of "bad" countries, then Saudi Arabia would be right near the top.

Maybe even outright 3rd.

Behind Iran 2, and overwhelmingly #1 Russia.

This list doesn't include the horrific crackdowns on any political dissidents, the numerous Russians who have "fallen out of a window" or died in mysterious circumstances after challenging Putin, the sending of political opponents like Navalny to prison work camps until they die, and so on and so forth...

Invaded Moldova ‘92
Second Chechen War '99
Flattened Grozny ‘99
Polonium tea in UK ‘06
Cyber attack devastates Estonia ‘07
Invaded Georgia ‘08
Invaded Crimea & Eastern Ukraine ‘14
Downed MH17 2014
Backs Assad and devastates Syria 2015-24
Novicok 2018
Invaded Eastern Ukraine 2022-
Downed J2-8243 2024

The list also doesn't include the Wagner Group's African deployments either.

Trying to sit here and pretend Russia aren't overwhelmingly the most aggressive and globally disruptive force of the last 20 years is ridiculous.

Chad, how can you possibly have any country above Israel?

They’re literally committing genocide against people they hold in an open air prison? The Palestinians have nowhere to go and when they go to areas Israel declares as safe zones they bomb the safe zones.

They have also killed hundreds of journalists and aid workers.

 

[ferball]

You've got your facts wrong there I think mate.

There was a unit of the USSRs Red Army which seppo anti commies like to say was "Russian" but wasn't cos the USSR wasn't Russia. I would have thought you would say that was the argument that Puin makes for annexing his neighbours.

That army was something like 80% Transnistran locals but gets called "Russian" because that's how propaganda works.

 

[ferball]

So I played ball with your true or false thing...

Simple yes or no answer Chad.

Should Hawaii be part of the US?

 

[Val Keating]

 

[Val Keating]

YESTERDAY. 86 People.

 

[Val Keating]

Genocide Joe

 

[travelli]

I knew people here would try and make that claim, but it's really not.

And this isn't about defending the US either.

The Iraq invasion was illegal, awful, and unnecessary. I never supported it.
Afghanistan was more complicated, and slightly more justifiable, given the context in which it occurred. But then they stayed for far too long and botched the withdrawal horribly too, handing back power to the Taliban.

America would be in the top 10 of my 'rankings', almost definitely. So again, I'm not defending any countries here.

But America simply is not on the level of Russia and Iran by any quantifiable metric. They just aren't.

You have to twist yourself into knots with mental gymnastics to suggest otherwise.

How was Afghanistan justifiable?

 

[travelli]

I deliberately stayed away from this thread to let the people that want to discuss random nonsense (and I’m not disparaging that, it’s fun) because I didn’t want to turn it into another thread about serious issues and eventually having it locked. But damn, here we go again

 

[Val Keating]

 

[Val Keating]

BTW, Blinken is a Israeli citizen

 

[Val Keating]

 

[DesertRoo]

I deliberately stayed away from this thread to let the people that want to discuss random nonsense (and I’m not disparaging that, it’s fun) because I didn’t want to turn it into another thread about serious issues and eventually having it locked. But damn, here we go again

It’s the Hotel California baby..

 

[The Butcher]

Genocide Joe

Thats gross. If your boss talked to you with that lvl of lucidity, the guy gave him the perfect polititians out but he wiffed it, you'd think the only result of them pushing hard would be a nappy change and you'd start wondering just how much shit you could start pulling b4 they get the ass.

 

[The Butcher]

So I played ball with your true or false thing...

Simple yes or no answer Chad.

Should Hawaii be part of the US?

Ferbs, should Hawaii have been a united Monarchy? My recollection, wrong maybe, was that some dude happened to have dreams of grandeur and also happened to find himself with a supply of projectile weapons far superior to his neighbors so he went on a conquering spree. King he then be.

What is this "should" question man? Wrong frame isnt it, even just for arguments sake.

 

[Val Keating]

Thats gross. If your boss talked to you with that lvl of lucidity, the guy gave him the perfect polititians out but he wiffed it, you'd think the only result of them pushing hard would be a nappy change and you'd start wondering just how much shit you could start pulling b4 they get the ass.

He’s just not there anymore.

He doesn’t know it, but he’s the Democrats patsy.

 

[Val Keating]

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Chadwiko]

Chad, how can you possibly have any country above Israel?

Easily.

Israel's actions are atrocious and indefensible.

But Israel's actions haven't brought us closer to nuclear armageddon like Russia's have. Israel isn't threatening Hamas with nuclear weapons.

Allow me to quote Zidane98 from the SRP Ukraine Conflict thread with the full list of times Putin and the Russian government have threatened Nuclear war;

A history to the vatniks - here is a list of Putin's "threats":

21.06.2024	Putin Threatens Nuclear Response if West Bolsters Ukraine Support
20.06.2024	Russia considering changes to nuclear doctrine, Putin claims
06.06.2024	Putin warns he could provide weapons to attack the West and issues new nuclear threat
12.05.2024	Putin Ally Threatens NATO Countries With ’Special Ammunition’
10.05.2024	Belarus dictator Lukashenko admits he is ’bonkers’ and has no ’red lines’ as he threatens the West with nukes and warns ’we are closer than ever to nuclear catastrophe’
10.05.2024	Putin hires hardline professor who suggested nuking Europe to ’test NATO’s resolve’ for Kremlin role ’deterring the West’
09.05.2024	Putin Renews Nuclear Threats Against West at Military Parade
06.05.2024	Russia announces nuclear weapon drills after angry exchange with Western officials
06.05.2024	Medvedev warns of nuclear attacks on European capitals in case of sending troops to Ukraine
17.04.2024	Ukraine May Have Just Crossed Putin’s Nuclear Red Line
14.03.2024	Putin warns the West: Russia is ready for nuclear war
29.02.2024	Putin threatens NATO with nuclear strike if it sends troops to Ukraine
28.02.2024	Russia prepared for nuclear attack on China, leaked papers reveal
18.02.2024	Russia’s Medvedev threatens to nuke US, UK, Germany, Ukraine
17.01.2024	Russia-US relations 'teetering on brink of abyss,' ambassador to US says
11.01.2024	Medvedev warns of nuclear response if Ukraine hits missile launch sites
16.11.2023	Russia loads missile with nuclear-capable glide vehicle into launch silo
06.11.2023	Russian Official Issues Nuclear Weapons Warning After Historic Achievement
30.10.2023	Western policy towards Russia threatens military clash between nuclear powers — Shoigu
20.10.2023	American-led world sliding headfirst into deepest abyss, Medvedev says
05.10.2023	Russia’s retaliatory nuclear strike to leave enemy with no chances of survival — Putin
30.07.2023	Russia’s Medvedev: We’d have to use a nuclear weapon if Ukrainian offensive was a success
13.07.2023	Russia to view F-16 fighter jets in Ukraine as threat in nuclear sphere - Lavrov
03.07.2023	Russia’s Medvedev says standoff with West to last decades, Ukraine conflict ’permanent’
25.06.2023	There is no choice left: Russia will have to launch a nuclear strike on Europe
21.06.2023	US, NATO’s aggressive policies may result in clash between nuclear powers
16.06.2023	Vladimir Putin delivers keynote address at St Petersburg forum
26.05.2023	Russia’s Medvedev warns West is underestimating risks of nuclear escalation over Ukraine
23.05.2023	Russia’s Medvedev: Western arms for Ukraine make ’nuclear apocalypse’ more likely
04.05.2023	Putin Allies Split Over Using Tactical Nuclear Weapons in Ukraine
25.04.2023	Russia warns again that risks of nuclear confrontation with US growing
25.04.2023	Putin ally: We are probably on verge of a new world war
05.04.2023	Russia, US are in hot conflict phase — senior diplomat
27.03.2023	Putin ally says Russia has weapons to destroy US if its existence is threatened
26.03.2023	Putin says Moscow to place nuclear weapons in Belarus, US reacts cautiously
23.03.2023	Any attempt to arrest Putin would be declaration of war on Russia, ally says
22.03.2023	Russia says risk of nuclear conflict at highest level in decades
27.02.2023	Russia’s Medvedev says arms supplies to Kyiv threaten global nuclear catastrophe
23.02.2023	Ukraine defends front, Putin talks up nuclear arsenal on war anniversary eve
22.02.2023	Russia’s war on Ukraine latest: Putin gives nuclear warning, Biden rallies allies
04.02.2023	Russia’s Medvedev says more U.S. weapons supplies mean ’all of Ukraine will burn’
19.01.2023	Putin ally warns NATO of nuclear war if Russia is defeated in Ukraine
25.12.2022	Only Russia’s nuclear arms preventing West from declaring war - Putin ally
09.12.2022	Russia may borrow US idea of disarming strike — Putin
05.12.2022	Russia’s Lavrov: NATO policy risks ’direct clash’ between nuclear powers
30.11.2022	Russia says it will focus on building nuclear arms infrastructure in 2023
17.11.2022	Russia is not considering using nuclear weapons - Kremlin says
02.11.2022	Russia: West must stop ’encouraging provocations’ to avoid nuclear disaster
18.10.2022	Russia says seized Ukrainian lands are under its nuclear protection
13.10.2022	Russian official warns of World War Three if Ukraine joins NATO
05.10.2022	Ukraine can be defeated with a nuclear strike on the United States - Fedorov
01.10.2022	Kadyrov says Russia should use low-yield nuclear weapon
27.09.2022	Medvedev raises spectre of Russian nuclear strike on Ukraine
23.09.2022	Moscow “not threatening anyone” with nuclear weapons
22.09.2022	Russia’s Medvedev: new regions can be defended with strategic nuclear weapons
21.09.2022	Ex-Putin adviser warns UK cities could be hit with nuclear weapons if Britain ‘continues to be aggressor’
21.09.2022	Putin escalates Ukraine war, issues nuclear threat to West
18.08.2022	Russia says nuclear weapons use possible only in ’emergency circumstances’
12.08.2022	Accidents can happen at European nuclear plants too,’ Russian ex-president says
01.08.2022	Putin says no one can win a nuclear war
17.07.2022	Russia’s Medvedev: Attack on Crimea will ignite ’Judgement Day’ response
06.07.2022	Russia’s Medvedev warns United States: messing with a nuclear power is folly
12.05.2022	Russia says Finnish entry to NATO poses threat to which it will respond
10.05.2022	On possible nuclear strike, Russia says: it’s all in our military doctrine
06.05.2022	Russian will not use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, foreign ministry says
30.04.2022	Russia says risks of nuclear war must be kept to minimum, TASS reports
25.04.2022	Russia’s Lavrov: Do not underestimate threat of nuclear war
24.04.2022	Russia warns of nuclear, hypersonic deployment if Sweden and Finland join NATO
22.03.2022	Kremlin spokesman: Russia would use nuclear weapons only in case of ’threat to existence of state’
28.02.2022	You’ll face consequences greater than any in history: Putin warns West
28.02.2022	“Why Do We Need a World if Russia Is Not In It?”: State TV Presenter Opens Show With Ominous Address
27.02.2022	Putin nuclear alert order part of pattern of made-up threats, U.S. says
27.02.2022	Putin puts nuclear deterrent on alert; West squeezes Russian economy
24.02.2022	EU says Putin’s ominous threat to those who hinder him marks ’critical moment’
13.12.2021	Russia says it may be forced to deploy mid-range nuclear missiles in Europe
25.02.2019	After Putin’s warning, Russian TV lists nuclear targets in U.S.
21.02.2019	Putin to U.S.: I’m ready for another Cuban Missile-style crisis if you want one
20.02.2019	Putin threatens to target US if it deploys missiles in nearby European countries
20.12.2018	Putin warns the threat of nuclear war should not be underestimated
24.10.2018	Russia will target European countries if they host U.S. nuclear missiles: Putin
27.05.2015	Nato chief says Russian nuclear threats are ’deeply troubling and dangerous’
22.03.2015	Russia threatens to aim nuclear missiles at Denmark ships if it joins NATO shield
01.09.2014	Russia Has Threatened Nuclear Attack, Says Ukraine Defence Minister
11.07.2014	Russia Threatens Nuclear Strikes Over Crimea
14.05.2014	Rogozin: Next time I will fly the Tu-160 (nuclear bomber)
16.03.2014	Russia can turn US to radioactive ash - Kremlin-backed journalist
04.04.2012	NATO - Russia talk of pre-emptive strike unjustified
23.03.2012	Medvedev calls missile defense a threat to Russia
23.11.2011	Russia in Europe missile threat
01.12.2010	Russia’s Putin warns West over missile defense: report
13.10.2009	Russia reserves pre-emptive nuclear strike right
15.08.2008	Moscow warns it could strike Poland over US missile shield
13.02.2008	Putin issues nuclear threat to Ukraine over plan to host US shield
11.04.2007	Russia threatening new cold war over missile defence

 

[Chadwiko]

So I played ball with your true or false thing...

Simple yes or no answer Chad.

Should Hawaii be part of the US?

Yes.

(I obviously have more to say on that, but you specified a simple 'yes or no'.

 

[ferball]

Yes.

(I obviously have more to say on that, but you specified a simple 'yes or no'.

Well you could justify it afterward like I did upthread.

Interesting that you are happy with the destruction of the sovereign kingdom of Hawaii because oligarchs moved in there tho.

 

[ferball]

Ferbs, should Hawaii have been a united Monarchy? My recollection, wrong maybe, was that some dude happened to have dreams of grandeur and also happened to find himself with a supply of projectile weapons far superior to his neighbors so he went on a conquering spree. King he then be.

That's not really anyone's business but the Polynesians who lived there. That happened throughout the Pacific all the time. He conquered some mobs, others willingly joined and Hawaii eventually became a multiethnic, multicultural democracy till a bunch of seppo businessmen stole Gubbi Gubbi IP and then deposed the legitimate head of that multiethnic, multicultural democracy so they could take advantage of that IP there. (Yes I know that's the abridged version but its close enough to accurate.)

What is this "should" question man? Wrong frame isnt it, even just for arguments sake.

Not really. I want to know what Chad thinks about this situation given his support for one other sovereign nation he seems to care so much about, so its the perfect question to frame his response. He needs to commit one way or the other to a response.