Lions v Collingwood

[Vipertooth]

I know its a bit early for this but i am going to go see this game for my birthday, and i am wondering that you guys thought. Can we beat the odds and win cause if we did, it would be like the best day ever! last time i went and saw lions vs coll we thrashed em and it was my birthday then too and i got to c the players after the game at luner park.

So tell me what you think...

 

[irel]

I've just consulted my crystal ball and I can confirm you will have a happy birthday.

 

[Grimreepah]

That's 2 weeks away

We'll see how we go against Fremantle first.

But it has always been my philosophy that if you beat Port Adelaide and Collingwood, then no matter what else happens, it hasn't been too bad a year.

 

[hehe_cutie]

I might be going with a few friend as well. Fingers crossed that we get to meet Rischitelli.

 

[Vipertooth]

Yeah nice, thanks for the quick replies guys Lions fans all the way

P.S i think we will beat fremantle by at least 30 points

 

[John]

That's 2 weeks away

We'll see how we go against Fremantle first.

But it has always been my philosophy that if you beat Port Adelaide and Collingwood, then no matter what else happens, it hasn't been too bad a year.

Gotta agree with that. I am worried though. Collingwood do look the goods at this point in time. The O'Brees of the team are playing to their full potential and Fraser is a pivitol player for them. You always can tell when they play well because their coach stops whining for half a second.

I have a thoery as to why they will not win the flag. Lack of tough travel. The AFL in its wisdom gives Collingwood the easiest draw so as a consequence they only travel maybe 4 or 5 times a season. Hence they lack a certain toughness that recent interstate sides have. Of the Melbourne clubs have you noticed the improvement in Richmond and the Western Bulldogs who have to travel. If I was the Collingwood coach I would ask that the draw be tougher so as to instil more toughness in the playing group. But they seem to think travel to Geelong is some form of outback adventure.

 

[Grimreepah]

Lack of tough travel. The AFL in its wisdom gives Collingwood the easiest draw so as a consequence they only travel maybe 4 or 5 times a season. Hence they lack a certain toughness that recent interstate sides have. Of the Melbourne clubs have you noticed the improvement in Richmond and the Western Bulldogs who have to travel. If I was the Collingwood coach I would ask that the draw be tougher so as to instil more toughness in the playing group. But they seem to think travel to Geelong is some form of outback adventure.

You may be right, but if I was getting 18 games in my home state I would not be complaining.

Collingwood have looked good, but they are yet to beat good opposition. They have defeated Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Essendon, Port Adelaide, Carlton and Geelong. Of the good sides: they played Adelaide at home and lost and were gallant in defeat against West Coast. I'm not yet convinced they are top 4 material.

 

[Vipertooth]

That is good to hear, but still what do you think our chances are?

 

[Lensen]

Gotta agree with that. I am worried though. Collingwood do look the goods at this point in time. The O'Brees of the team are playing to their full potential and Fraser is a pivitol player for them. You always can tell when they play well because their coach stops whining for half a second.

I have a thoery as to why they will not win the flag. Lack of tough travel. The AFL in its wisdom gives Collingwood the easiest draw so as a consequence they only travel maybe 4 or 5 times a season. Hence they lack a certain toughness that recent interstate sides have. Of the Melbourne clubs have you noticed the improvement in Richmond and the Western Bulldogs who have to travel. If I was the Collingwood coach I would ask that the draw be tougher so as to instil more toughness in the playing group. But they seem to think travel to Geelong is some form of outback adventure.

Hahaha rubbish. Richmond improvement? Yeah, massive there - a 4-4 start as opposed to, what, a 6-2 start last year? Massively improved.

I love the "haven't beat a good team" argument. What defines a good team? If you're going on this year's results, then you have to include Hawthorn - they won all other four games in their first five rounds! If you're going on last year's form - we just beat Geelong by 100 points! True, we lost to WCE and Adelaide - but we were hardly poor in either game, save the last quarter v Adelaide.

And once again, I'd be happy to go interstate ten times a year if I got 12 true home games against sides that had to travel. But it's easier to moan about "18 games in Melbourne" than it is to realise you're basically given (in a good year) 12 wins.

 

[Grimreepah]

I love the "haven't beat a good team" argument. What defines a good team?

Someone with a remote chance of winning the premiership.

Don't get defensive though. Collingwood have been impressive. All I'm saying is that I haven't seen enough yet to be convinced that they are as good as their position on the ladder suggests.

 

[Grimreepah]

That is good to hear, but still what do you think our chances are?

I'll answer that next week

 

[Lensen]

That leaves Adelaide, West Coast and Sydney, if you're not going to include us. We can lose all our games to those three and still be in the top four.

 

[Vipertooth]

I'll answer that next week

lol faro

 

[Grimreepah]

That leaves Adelaide, West Coast and Sydney, if you're not going to include us. We can lose all our games to those three and still be in the top four.

What is the best team you have beaten?

 

[Lions43]

The thing that most annoys me about this game (besides the great form the Pies are in) is the fact that we have to get to Melbourne on the back of a 6 day break whilst Collingwood rest up with an 8 day break. These little vagaries of the draw are just so important.

 

[Lensen]

What is the best team you have beaten?

We beat Hawthorn, who were 4-1 after round 5. The one loss being to us.

We pulverised Geelong, who six weeks ago everyone was talking up as the team to beat. They were coming off a solid win against St Kilda, who six weeks ago were top four certainties.

But the point is, other than the ANZAC Day game - we aren't just beating sides, we're crushing them.

 

[Grimreepah]

We beat Hawthorn

We beat Hawthorn by more.

We pulverised Geelong

Geelong have won 1 of their last 5 games.


The Magpies may be the real deal, but I won't know until they beat some good sides like the Bulldogs, Melbourne, Sydney, St Kilda, Fremantle. But you have every reason to be confident.

 

[konstas_87]

Hahaha rubbish. Richmond improvement? Yeah, massive there - a 4-4 start as opposed to, what, a 6-2 start last year? Massively improved.

I love the "haven't beat a good team" argument. What defines a good team? If you're going on this year's results, then you have to include Hawthorn - they won all other four games in their first five rounds! If you're going on last year's form - we just beat Geelong by 100 points! True, we lost to WCE and Adelaide - but we were hardly poor in either game, save the last quarter v Adelaide.

And once again, I'd be happy to go interstate ten times a year if I got 12 true home games against sides that had to travel. But it's easier to moan about "18 games in Melbourne" than it is to realise you're basically given (in a good year) 12 wins.

this is the 'Lions' board where Lions supporters make comments without the need to please other teams' supporters. If you are going to invite yourself onto the board at least don't stir .
The fact is you haven't beaten a top 4 team yet and until you do, you'll be the team that's playing as good as any team could play, but hasn't proven themselves when it matters.

 

[wickedwitch]

I know its a bit early for this but i am going to go see this game for my birthday, and i am wondering that you guys thought. Can we beat the odds and win cause if we did, it would be like the best day ever! last time i went and saw lions vs coll we thrashed em and it was my birthday then too and i got to c the players after the game at luner park.

So tell me what you think...

I'm heading down to see this game for my birthday too Vipertooth. Let's hope that we both have much to celebrate. The good thing about Collingwood games (especially now they are winning) is there'll be a big crowd and atmosphere at the G will be fantastic. I'm looking forward to it very much.

 

[John]

Hahaha rubbish. Richmond improvement? Yeah, massive there - a 4-4 start as opposed to, what, a 6-2 start last year? Massively improved.

I love the "haven't beat a good team" argument. What defines a good team? If you're going on this year's results, then you have to include Hawthorn - they won all other four games in their first five rounds! If you're going on last year's form - we just beat Geelong by 100 points! True, we lost to WCE and Adelaide - but we were hardly poor in either game, save the last quarter v Adelaide.

And once again, I'd be happy to go interstate ten times a year if I got 12 true home games against sides that had to travel. But it's easier to moan about "18 games in Melbourne" than it is to realise you're basically given (in a good year) 12 wins.

I did not say "haven't beat a good team", take that up with Grimreepah. And I would be if I was Collingwood supporter, to quote you "happy to go interstate ten times a year if I got 12 true home games against sides that had to travel". Are you not seeing the point of my argument? You have a good side that is for me a genuine chance at the flag with one problem. Toughness. Hard travel will make you tough. It is nice to have loud home support week after week but your team requires that mental toughness that Brisbane had in their glory years. Even Port gained it in their premiership year with an aging list. Sydney have it now. All travelled extensivly. Adelaide and West Coast are near. Freo are not. Do you see the point I am making?


"But it's easier to moan....". I am not a Collingwood hater per se and I will not hurl cheap insults at you, the team supporters or your team. Remember that. But that quote about moaning deserves a reply. Mick is a moaner. Listen to him. One of the few coaches in the history of top level sport to critisize his own player(s) after a loss. This is usually done behind closed doors not to the prying media. Remember a certain thrashing by the Lions? Who coped the blame that day. Not the coach. Just as recently as last week he complained about the rookie system. Even a Collingwood stalwart asked him to turn it down. I watched Tony Shaw do this on White Line fever.

Your teams in for a good year and I will enjoy watching their progress's and their failure's. Buckley is an all time fav for me even though he left Brisbane. Fraser is pivotal. I could go on. BUT, and a big BUT, I suspect that there may be a lack of hardness that may ultimately pay. Anyway I am off to work. Have a good one.

 

[Lensen]

this is the 'Lions' board where Lions supporters make comments without the need to please other teams' supporters. If you are going to invite yourself onto the board at least don't stir
The fact is you haven't beaten a top 4 team yet and until you do, you'll be the team that's playing as good as any team could play, but hasn't proven themselves when it matters.

The Hawks were top four three weeks ago. Geelong were top four six months ago. Where do you draw the line? Now, because it suits your argument? If the ladder was currently Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Richmond - just for the sake of the discussion - but still had lost to Adelaide and WCE, would people say that because we've beaten none of last year's powers that we're no good still?

I'm not trying to stir - I've done that before and I'm over it, at least on this board. Just trying to provide a counterbalance to a discussion.

 

[Lensen]

Fair point re the travel, and thought out logically. Still - again, as I've posted on another thread - I'd want to wait another five years to see if it's an ongoing thing with the "more travelled" clubs. Reason being that the Lions in 01-03 had the benefit of their zone concessions maturing, as well as the Fitzroy 8 (and the associated benefits of trading those 8). Port had their initial squad maturing in 2004, and the Swans had the few zone concessions left plus their salary cap advantage. If the trend of interstate clubs dominating continues over the next five years continues, then your point may have more credence IMO, but to me at the moment it is simply a coincidence.

 

[Grimreepah]

The Hawks were top four three weeks ago. Geelong were top four six months ago. Where do you draw the line? Now, because it suits your argument? If the ladder was currently Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Richmond - just for the sake of the discussion - but still had lost to Adelaide and WCE, would people say that because we've beaten none of last year's powers that we're no good still?

Personally I think you are a good poster and I don't think you are trying to stir .

But I don't think you're presenting a very convincing argument on this occaison. If the ladder was as you suggested, then our opinions of those teams would be completely different.

I'd be interested, if you would spare the time, to rank the teams from 1 to 16, 1 being the best team, 16 being the worst team.

 

[Lensen]

Personally I think you are a good poster and I don't think you are trying to stir .

But I don't think you're presenting a very convincing argument on this occaison. If the ladder was as you suggested, then our opinions of those teams would be completely different.

I'd be interested, if you would spare the time, to rank the teams from 1 to 16, 1 being the best team, 16 being the worst team.

I know that as the ladder stands now, the teams we've beaten are in the bottom section - but at the time they weren't. If we'd lost those games to them, they'd be higher (obviously). I can see it from your point of view as well but I do disagree.

Ranking the teams? Will probably have a different view in an hour but for the sake of it I'll do it.

Adelaide
Collingwood
Sydney
West Coast
Western Bulldogs
Melbourne
St Kilda
Geelong
Fremantle
Richmond
Brisbane
Hawthorn
Essendon
Port Adelaide
Kangaroos
Carlton

Obviously this probably backs up your point but only if you also agree that Collingwood are teh second best side, as you either have to accept the whole thing or write the whole thing off. As the initial discussion was whether we're a top four side, it's an interesting conundrum.

 

[POBT]

The Hawks were top four three weeks ago. Geelong were top four six months ago. Where do you draw the line? Now, because it suits your argument? If the ladder was currently Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Richmond - just for the sake of the discussion - but still had lost to Adelaide and WCE, would people say that because we've beaten none of last year's powers that we're no good still?

I'm not trying to stir - I've done that before and I'm over it, at least on this board. Just trying to provide a counterbalance to a discussion.

Some form is "false" form. I think it is a genuine query as to whether beating Hawthorn and Geelong constitutes good "form". Obviously you can only beat your opponent but people are entitled to place a small question mark over Collingwood's form at this stage. I love a punt on the horses - if Collingwood was a horse, I'd still back it but not unless it had some value. Obviously, a win over one of the other top sides would change that.

At this stage, I place more emphasis on the loss to West Coast than anything else - I reckon Collingwood learnt far more about where there are at from that game than any other game this year.