Denis to Freo?..Doubt it!

[Groucho]

I know some of our Freo friends mooted this possibility a while ago, and he is actually named as their first preference in the Age (but not named in the Hun) , but I believe that Freo just want the best available experienced coach for next year. This is a very limited field when you take away those that definitely won't move and those that Freo wouldn't want. I think it comes down to Pagan,Wallace and Eade but it won't be Pagan because he likes Moonee Ponds too much! By the way what exactly does a coaches contract mean? I remember when Collingwood was after Denis a few years ago Eddie said he wasn't concerned that Denis was contracted for the next year. Well he's contracted for 2002 but I fear we'll hear Freo rumours all year.

 

[schimma_20]

The Dockers will throw a lot of money at him and as they say money talks.He would be foolish not to look at their offer and in the end he will do whats best for Dennis Pagan

 

[Shinboners]

Ah well.....at least the prospect of Pagan going to Freo will give Sabre's life some sort of meaning

I think Eddie was just showing some bravado for the Pie faithful, but for Collingwood to have broken the Pagan-Kangaroos contract, you would think that there would have to be some sort of compensation paid to the Roos. But this thing hasn't been tested since Carlton enticed Parkin away from Hawthorn. I think the Brisbane Bears managed to lure John Northey away from Richmond, but that seemed to be more due to the Tiger's reluctance to give Northey a contract extension.

I'd be very surprised if Pagan did leave. He seems to be the type of man that would honour his contract. If Pagan's contract was finishing at the end of this season, I'd be more worried. But since he's signed until the end of next season, I'm sure he'll see it through and that he will sign a further extension at the end of this season.

 

[kaseykasem14]

Denis is North through and through.

I don't think there is any chance that he will leave Nth in the near future and no way will he head to WA.

He loves this club and I for one would support him as coach for a long time - he has a proven record with both under 19's and senior players.

His one fault, if you could call it that, is his loyalty to players who have done the job in the past hence his persistence with Corey McKernan and his genuine disappointment with Coreys poor form.

This is a man of integrity and he has total loyalty from the players.

Just my 2cents worth

 

[Aussie_Roo]

You can never say never. Freo are in a similiar position to where we were back in 93 - a good list waiting to develop. Hopefully, with the new guys we got this year, and the ones we will get at this year's draft, will be challenging enough for him to begin the process again at our club. At the end of the day, it will be up to him to decide his future - not the club.

 

[colin]

I don't think we will see Denis at Freo and I don't even think money would be the reason because I think after last weekend he has seen a new challenge, and that is to bring along the next crop of kids and turn them into another great team.
His comments on the weekend about getting fresh blood in are to be applauded and hopefully the next decade will bring as much success as the last one.

 

[CURVE]

Denis will evenually leave North, but it will be on his own terms and when he feels he has contributed as much as possible to the future success of the club, and hopefully thats not for another five/ten years at least. He loves the club, the players and supporters and so much of his life and football career is tied with the club.
Whatever Freo throw at him will not be enough to see him move, and the club would be stupid to sack him, so Denis is here to stay.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Shinboners
Ah well.....at least the prospect of Pagan going to Freo will give Sabre's life some sort of meaning

I think Eddie was just showing some bravado for the Pie faithful, but for Collingwood to have broken the Pagan-Kangaroos contract, you would think that there would have to be some sort of compensation paid to the Roos. But this thing hasn't been tested since Carlton enticed Parkin away from Hawthorn. I think the Brisbane Bears managed to lure John Northey away from Richmond, but that seemed to be more due to the Tiger's reluctance to give Northey a contract extension.

I'd be very surprised if Pagan did leave. He seems to be the type of man that would honour his contract. If Pagan's contract was finishing at the end of this season, I'd be more worried. But since he's signed until the end of next season, I'm sure he'll see it through and that he will sign a further extension at the end of this season.

Shinners its my one light at the end of the tunnel.
Personally I would prefer wallace if given the choice.
But i suppose Pagan will have to do

Then again Pagan may have achieved all that he wanted to at the Roos, and is probally realising that the Roos will be in the rebuilding stage for a few years to come.
Freo on the other hand though last, unlike the roos most of there stars are 21 or under and the future looks bright.
Pagan must be able to see the similiarites between the two sides.

Freo has the up and coming star half forward (thats not to say im comparing him to carey) ,freo has the young King in the mold of haselby, and the young martyn in the form of Brown. And even a young Mc Kernan in the form of longmuir, this along with Black and the prospect of 2 concessions picks is a fairly delicious bait for any coach.

Personally I dont think any price is too high to snare pagans services.
I think his value to the club is more than his tactical skills.
Its in the form of his precence and reputation.
He will attract members the the club and may be the differnce between freo hanging on to the its young eastern state stars.

Freo may be to pagan wat Adelaide was to blight.

 

[Groucho]

Sabe what you say about Pagan is very true. It's also very true that he is an honourable man and has already said that he'll fullfill his contractual obligations AND hopes to have that contracted extended. Plough for you I think!

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by sabre_ac

Then again Pagan may have achieved all that he wanted to at the Roos, and is probally realising that the Roos will be in the rebuilding stage for a few years to come.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Originally posted by sabre_ac

Freo has the up and coming star half forward (thats not to say im comparing him to carey) ,freo has the young King in the mold of haselby, and the young martyn in the form of Brown. And even a young Mc Kernan in the form of longmuir, this along with Black and the prospect of 2 concessions picks is a fairly delicious bait for any coach.
.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Originally posted by sabre_ac

Freo may be to pagan wat Adelaide was to blight.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Sab you are one funny bastard...

 

[sabre_ac]

BWAHAHAHHAAH
Nice to see your acting your age Rooboy!

So who will be joining the dockers next year when Pagan is at the helm??

 

[Shinboners]

Sabre,

I thought Freo's magical midfield was supposed to be the driving force for your guys to head into the finals. Y'know, that midfield that is recognised by one and all as the best ever assembled.

Now, you need to poach someone else's coach. Why stop at the coach? Get a new President, CEO, recruiting manager, football operations manager.....one day, Freo will get it right. Just hope you're alive to see it.

 

[kmartkid]

Freo have been building a side for 5 years.

There are no similarities with Nth in 92.

In fact, if anyone stars at Freo they trade them !

You don't need a new coach you need a new administration. Maybe Gary Ayres

Drum will do fine once he has undone the damage caused by Neeshams recruiting policy and the administrations lack of ability.

 

[SpecialBruce]

If they want Pagan I reckon he should go. He would be the perfect coach to do something with their list. It will be a good challenge for him. He did it with Kangaroos, lets see if he can do it again while Fremantle are not that good.

 

[ant]

Roo boy, I was thinking the same thing. hahaha Freo is in no way similar to the position North was in 93.

Shinners, that dynamite midfield will dominate Sat. night and propell the Dockers to their first win of the season.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by ant
Shinners, that dynamite midfield will dominate Sat. night and propell the Dockers to their first win of the season.

I've heard that the Dockers midfield is so good that the likes of Manchester United, Barcelona, and Juventus want to sign 'em up for next season.

 

[Briedis]

I agree with kmartkid. The Dockers are a bunch of dud players who have been 'building' a team since they joined the AFL.

Drum has got these players to a level where they are at least competetive every week and will probably win a few games this year.

Until they get an administration that shows some faith in a decent coach (and not a dud like neesham - look at the job he's doing with the umps this year.... ) no big name coach is going to leave Melbourne and settle in Perth to coach them.

Pagan played for North, coached North Juniors and Seniors. He is a NORTH man and will coach us for another eight years at least. He will be the Sheedy of the Roos....

 

[Darky]

Without delving too deep into the mysteries of the Fremantle midfield, on the surface it appears their four main midfielders are all the same type of player. Bell, Fletcher, Hasleby and Cook can all get 30 possessions a game BUT aren't damaging enough with them. That's not to say disposal is poor, it's just a lot of short kicks and ineffective clearances (which clear the ball from the ruck, but only to another 50-50 contest), and none of those four are exceptionally fleet of foot. None of the four are players like Nathan Buckley, David King, Joel Bowden, Wayne Schwass etc who will run 30-40 metres before unloading with a long, penetrating kick.
Once those four Fremantle players are taken out of a game, there is no depth beyond that quartet. And I would think it is easier to shut such a midfielder out than it is to blanket a player who has legspeed as well as ball-getting ability.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Darky
Without delving too deep into the mysteries of the Fremantle midfield, on the surface it appears their four main midfielders are all the same type of player. Bell, Fletcher, Hasleby and Cook can all get 30 possessions a game BUT aren't damaging enough with them. That's not to say disposal is poor, it's just a lot of short kicks and ineffective clearances (which clear the ball from the ruck, but only to another 50-50 contest), and none of those four are exceptionally fleet of foot. None of the four are players like Nathan Buckley, David King, Joel Bowden, Wayne Schwass etc who will run 30-40 metres before unloading with a long, penetrating kick.
Once those four Fremantle players are taken out of a game, there is no depth beyond that quartet. And I would think it is easier to shut such a midfielder out than it is to blanket a player who has legspeed as well as ball-getting ability.

Ok your points on speed are valid.
But lack of speed never stoped players like Harvey.
Haselby is in the mold.He isnt fast, but has good evasion skills and can read the play up there with the best of them.
You probally didnt know this but haselby played allot of his junior days in the full forward position.
He can pull down big marks against oposition taller than him. And hence can more forward and be more than just a possesion gather.
Fletcher is another like that, who can pull down the big marks and move forward to become the dangerous forward.

It has been well documented that we lack the type of players your talking about.Black is really our only reconized "recieving" player, he is a left footer that is very accurate and can kick goals from the 50 meter arc.
But he is alone, walker is taking longer that expected in stepping up and we traded away our 2 other prominent "recieving players" in sinclair and holland.

Without a doubt our inside players are second to none, but we do lack the recieving players.

Darky if it was so easy to shut those players out, why havent teams been able to do it.
In the end its player fatige that kills them.
Bell,haselby,fletcher and cook in any other team would recieve taggers.
And most teams simply dont have enough taggers to go round.
Our problem is not getting the ball, but the link players that you describe.

Speed in my opinon is valuable but there are ways around it.
Like fletcher has shown and Haselby has and will continue to for the next 10 or 15 years.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by sabre_ac

Darky if it was so easy to shut those players out, why havent teams been able to do it.
In the end its player fatige that kills them.
Bell,haselby,fletcher and cook in any other team would recieve taggers.
And most teams simply dont have enough taggers to go round.
Our problem is not getting the ball, but the link players that you describe.

By shutting a player out I don't necessarily mean it will reflect on his possession tally. Physical pressure and close checking can shut out a player by negating the effectiveness of his 25-30 possessions.
For instance, Robert Harvey (who can be likened to Hasleby and Fletcher at least), always gets plenty of touches against us, but in the last few years Martin Pike has kept him closer at hand than a hip flask of bourbon, and made sure the kicks and handballs were dished out under immense pressure, nullifying the impact of Harvey's possessions.
In simplistic terms a player who gets 30+ touches and can dash, is harder to match up than a 30+ non-dasher (given that skills and football smarts are otherwise even), simply because he has an extra asset - his pace.
It is the reason why the feeling from most North supporters is that King would have been a bigger loss than Bell, because of his ability to run, and move the ball forward 80-90 metres at a time, instead of Bell's usual 20-30 metres forward (and sometimes sideways).
Both types of players are necessary for a midfield to be truly effective, which is ultimately the reason Fremantle's midfield have been able to get the ball at close quarters, but not move it forward with any great effectiveness. This does not reflect poorly on Hasleby, Fletcher, Cook and Bell, as they are all very good players in their own right - all it does is show that Fremantle's midfield has a sameness about it, and needs a David King type to capitalise on the work of the in and under players.

 

[GoEagles]

Mistaken Identity?

Originally posted by Briedis

Until they get an administration that shows some faith in a decent coach (and not a dud like neesham - look at the job he's doing with the umps this year.... ) no big name coach is going to leave Melbourne and settle in Perth to coach them.

Gerard Neesham isn't working with the umpires this year, at least not at AFL level to my understanding. Did you get confused with Jeff Geesham who used to coach Richmond and is now in charge of the AFL umpires?