List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  29

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  25

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

  4star

  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[stallon]

You’re not really behind right now. You’d be equal with the two NSW clubs this year and next year in terms of talent, with your NGA kids in the WA team.

We might have talented kids, but theyre potentially still below where they couldve been. Maybe Champion would be rated 10 picks higher if we had invested more into him from an earlier age. Maybe we would have 1-2 more kids likely to get drafted had we invested the time into them.
2-3 years imo

 

[wirra44]

And if you don’t have a top NGA or father son kid, you do what every other club does, select a kid in the first round of the draft.

Each club should be able to pick 1 academy/father son player in the first round and If your teams player gets bid on pick 1 you should at least have pick 11, if your player gets bid on at 2 you need to have at least pick 12 and so on, that’s how I think it should be.

 

[briztoon]

I have South African parents when I was a kid I had to fight my dad for him to let me play footy over rugby, a lot stick to there roots AFL is not well liked by South Africans living in Perth.

You believe that’s any different to most QLD families?

Private schools here, particularly the GPS schools are hard core Rugby Union and won’t allow AFL in their schools. Different for the lower tier AIS schools.

And rugby league is the heart land of the public schools here.

And like most expat families, soccer is their code of choice.


The Gold Coast is a bit different, because they have had a high percentage of interstate immigration from Victoria for 3 generations now, they actually have a AFL culture there, it’s just that it’s largely based around their community clubs and clubs their families supported in the VFL.

The Suns academy is changing that, slowly. But they still compete with rugby league there.

 

[wirra44]

You believe that’s any different to most QLD families?

Private schools here, particularly the GPS schools are hard core Rugby Union and won’t allow AFL in their schools. Different for the lower tier AIS schools.

And rugby league is the heart land of the public schools here.

And like most expat families, soccer is their code of choice.


The Gold Coast is a bit different, because they have had a high percentage of interstate immigration from Victoria for 3 generations now, they actually have a AFL culture there, it’s just that it’s largely based around their community clubs and clubs their families supported in the VFL.

The Suns academy is changing that, slowly. But they still compete with rugby league there.

I’m not saying it is any different in qld, all I was stating was that most kids with foreign parents stick to there roots and choose a sport there parent grew up with.

 

[briztoon]

We might have talented kids, but theyre potentially still below where they couldve been. Maybe Champion would be rated 10 picks higher if we had invested more into him from an earlier age. Maybe we would have 1-2 more kids likely to get drafted had we invested the time into them.
2-3 years imo

Which was my call as well.

But what I was pointing out is that Syd and GWS don’t have highly talented kids in their academies either for this year or next.

Sydney’s U16’s demolished both the Lions and Suns U16’s in some practice matches this month.

And at the level our academies are at, it only takes 2 or 3 genuinely talented kids to make a big difference in results, because as I’ve mentioned before, there’s a big drop off in the level of talent over here.

 

[briztoon]

I’m not saying it is any different in qld, all I was stating was that most kids with foreign parents stick to there roots and choose a sport there parent grew up with.

Well that’s what the NGA’s are meant to try and change.

 

[wirra44]

Well that’s what the NGA’s are meant to try and change.

I’m not saying get rid of them but make it fair so it doesn’t completely compromise the draft.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I’m still confused about the trade TB approach. Would leave us with McGovern whose last game could be any day with his injury predilection.

Would be absolutely ****ed then. Unless you’re expecting to turn around and just pick up Busslinger who hasn’t played an afl level game and expect him to anchor a defence

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Carrol is getting games as a developing mid at a club contending now.

And doing alright.

What has Hall done to date in comparison? Zero.

And if the last three games have shown us we need to add to our midfield depth. Righ age and a position of need.

We need to replace Sheed, Gaff, J Jones, L Edwards and in 2 - 3 seasons Yeo and then Kelly. Thats 6 more mids to come in. We arent getting them all with 1st round picks thats for sure.

14 may slide to 17 and land Travaglia or Bo Allen.

Travaglia plus Carrol for a 29 year old Barrass.

Every fan wants more sure but that isnt a stretch, maybe some future pick swaps to get it there.

I feel hall has more upside than carrol .

Carrol hasn't really established himself after 3 seasons . He is a bit of a plodder where as hall has a great burst for an inside mid .

I also feel travaglia will go more towards pick 10 than pick 20 .

We have hall , Hewett, Johnston and long to fill those spots that gaff and sheed will vacate .

I would also rather chase a garcia or cummings if we went down that mature age path

 

[ghostbat12]

I’m still confused about the trade TB approach. Would leave us with McGovern whose last game could be any day with his injury predilection.

Would be absolutely ****ed then. Unless you’re expecting to turn around and just pick up Busslinger who hasn’t played an afl level game and expect him to anchor a defence

It’s clear that managers are putting pressure on with raised cap, irrespective of what contract has been signed.

He will only leave if trade benefits us so I am not sure what big deal is.

If he wants to go, then off you go. I am tired of hearing people panic over players leaving like it’s end of the world. There is always opportunity.

 

[briztoon]

I’m not saying get rid of them but make it fair so it doesn’t completely compromise the draft.

How do you propose to make them fair, without compromising the draft?

Because it’s either invest in them properly and clubs get full access to any draft quality talent, and live with the compromised nature of the draft

Or scrap them completely and go to a full uncompromised draft, father sons excluded.

There’s no perfect solution, because every sporting competition contains inherent inequalities.

 

[briztoon]

I feel hall has more upside than carrol .

Carrol hasn't really established himself after 3 seasons . He is a bit of a plodder where as hall has a great burst for an inside mid .

I also feel travaglia will go more towards pick 10 than pick 20 .

We have hall , Hewett, Johnston and long to fill those spots that gaff and sheed will vacate .

I would also rather chase a garcia or cummings if we went down that mature age path

In your opinion, what is the talent gap between FOS and Travaglia, or Smillie and Travaglia?

Because it looks like such an even draft (atm), I wouldn’t be surprised if we see lots of perceived reaches or players sliding.

Could be a lot of variance between draft rankings and where players go. Similarly a high variance between different clubs draft boards, depending on team needs.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Bowes, Davies, 4 last year. In the 13 years they’ve been around. 1 this year.

Go and start checking the birth records of all those expat South African kids you have playing. They only need one parent to have been born overseas to qualify.

Like Erasmus who we didn't have access to because they changed the rules

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

In your opinion, what is the talent gap between FOS and Travaglia, or Smillie and Travaglia?

Because it looks like such an even draft (atm), I wouldn’t be surprised if we see lots of perceived reaches or players sliding.

Could be a lot of variance between draft rankings and where players go. Similarly a high variance between different clubs draft boards, depending on team needs.

Travaglia is clearly a talented interceptor and rebound defender .
His kicking can be up and under at times he also tends to kick long over accuracy when running out of defence .

But he is not a tall or a midfielder which will take him out of the top echelon of players IMO .

I still think he may make the top 10 if his form continues or a team sees a pressing need for his type .

I don't think he makes it out of the top dozen due to the fact teams are putting a premium on launching attacks from the back 50 and players who can provide this .

 

[CountryLad]

According to the commentary to the U/18 WA v SA game, under-ager Koby Evans is an indigenous NGA for the Eagles. He bagged 2 goals and looked lively. He’s already 187cm and 82kgs. Sheehan noted that he has exceptional speed.

One to keep an eye on…

Like him a lot from the two games so far. He hasn’t got a heap of it but looks athletic and a good size.

If they change the NGA rules we could be a chance and add Banfield in as a father/son and it could be an interesting draft year 2025.

 

[wirra44]

How do you propose to make them fair, without compromising the draft?

Because it’s either invest in them properly and clubs get full access to any draft quality talent, and live with the compromised nature of the draft

Or scrap them completely and go to a full uncompromised draft, father sons excluded.

There’s no perfect solution, because every sporting competition contains inherent inequalities.

I’d rather scrap them completely then the way it works now, as a club we haven’t had many “true” father sons anyway. Jake Waterman basically the only one that’s worked out for us.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

If the AFL invested in the academies and made it about participation as opposed to top end talent, there would be greater benefits long term.

The current model promotes self interest as they focus on making stars.

 

[bzparkes]

You believe that’s any different to most QLD families?

Private schools here, particularly the GPS schools are hard core Rugby Union and won’t allow AFL in their schools. Different for the lower tier AIS schools.

And rugby league is the heart land of the public schools here.

And like most expat families, soccer is their code of choice.


The Gold Coast is a bit different, because they have had a high percentage of interstate immigration from Victoria for 3 generations now, they actually have a AFL culture there, it’s just that it’s largely based around their community clubs and clubs their families supported in the VFL.

The Suns academy is changing that, slowly. But they still compete with rugby league there.

Lucky my kid is in the zone for Coorparoo. They have the JAFC on site there, with 2 Aussie rules ovals and the third largest Auskick centre in the country.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

I’d rather scrap them completely then the way it works now, as a club we haven’t had many “true” father sons anyway. Jake Waterman basically the only one that’s worked out for us.

Lol and no one even bid on jake we selected him with our last pick

 

[briztoon]

Each club should be able to pick 1 academy/father son player in the first round and If your teams player gets bid on pick 1 you should at least have pick 11, if your player gets bid on at 2 you need to have at least pick 12 and so on, that’s how I think it should be.

Was mentioned on our board, they'll probably use the same matching system as the AFLW.

“Matching a bid by a Club means using a selection in the Draft which falls within one round of the bid. For example, where a bid falls with the sixth selection of the first round (selection 1.06), the matching Club must use their next selection by the sixth selection of the second round (selection 2.06).”

So if Ashcroft is bid on at pick 3, the first pick we have to use, is a pick no later than the 3rd pick of the second round. We would still need to match the total points value of the pick where the bid was made, so we're still going to need another couple of picks worth of points to match.

This system has a couple of "safety guards" built in to it. Teams aren't penalised by other teams receiving compensation picks between where the bid was made, and the first matching pick. It also disincentives teams trading out future picks in trades if they have multiple kids in the future. And it makes it impossible for teams to trade back for a package of 3rd round picks.

And it makes it much more expensive for teams package picks to trade up, at full value. If we (Lions) finish the season at 13th, where we currently sit on the ladder, the only team capable of trading up for our pick 6 is Freo with their picks 13 and 16. And in a draft like this years, is pick 6 that much better than picks 13 and 16?

If this system was in place now, no way Brisbane or Carlton would have traded out their future second round picks last trade period for players. Carlton traded it's future second round pick for former top 7 pick Elijah Hollands, while getting back future 3rd and 4th round picks. So they strengthened their list for this year, while strengthening their draft hand for this year as well.

Bring in the AFLW system, and it makes it so much harder, and teams have to make a choice between getting better next year, or picking up those father son kids that won't arrive for another 12 months.

 

[briztoon]

Lucky my kid is in the zone for Coorparoo. They have the JAFC on site there, with 2 Aussie rules ovals and the third largest Auskick centre in the country.

Gees, your kids play with my boss's kids.

 

[briztoon]

Like Erasmus who we didn't have access to because they changed the rules

Sliding doors moment there.

Erasmus or Chesser?

 

[briztoon]

Travaglia is clearly a talented interceptor and rebound defender .
His kicking can be up and under at times he also tends to kick long over accuracy when running out of defence .

But he is not a tall or a midfielder which will take him out of the top echelon of players IMO .

I still think he may make the top 10 if his form continues or a team sees a pressing need for his type .

I don't think he makes it out of the top dozen due to the fact teams are putting a premium on launching attacks from the back 50 and players who can provide this .

I'm not suggesting Travaglia goes in the top half dozen picks. More my point was there appears less of a talent gap between the top 3 and pick 12. I can see teams with picks outside the top half dozen or so, really look at needs over best player on board.

 

[bzparkes]

Gees, your kids play with my boss's kids.

Ah, she only did Auskick this year. Missed the sign up for club footy, so will do it next year. Her classmate's dad is a coach there.

 

[eaglespremiers]

But he is not a tall or a midfielder which will take him out of the top echelon of players IMO .

Played primarily on ball last week and was dominant around the contests ending as the top disposal getter on the ground. Also laid 7 tackles and kicked three goals when resting forward.
I expect that Danny might play him in the midfield for much of the second part of the season. Talking to Tobie the other week after a game he indicated that he preferred the midfield role.