Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/

Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their rumour files.

Remember ... #Bluemour





Continued from here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVIII

No to Hamill, sounds like a barker type journey man. I want someone who’s eager to learn and challenge themselves to new environments. I saw someone said he was a Choco Williams type, I wouldn’t have thought so.. choco is a premiership winning coach and has more runs on the board than most Be...

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[Kreuuuzeurns]

Ross Lyon would be a great coach, though I’d prefer to see him work with Teague
instead of replacing Teague. Teague has proven he has the attacking nous but clearly needs some help with midfield and defensive structure.

If the players do indeed like DT I think we’re best to support him instead of rocking the boat with a more old school polarising coach. That’s just my take.

 

[Coops93]

Look as much as I don't want to watch a Lyon team every weekend I'd rather be a winning team.

If he is going to be the guy we have to make sure his motivation is right. As has been said multiple times Malthouses motivation was questionable. For Lyon I think the allure of a flag still burns.

Agree with people saying dismissing people due to an anti-messiah complex is silly. There's nothing wrong with it and the only one that didn't work out of late was Mick.

 

[RoyalBlues]

I think getting the right Head of Football might be more important than who we have as coach.

Would that bring game day systems, alternative plans and defensive edge though?

I agree that it is a big part of the puzzle.

 

[Rosscoe]

IMO No doubt Lyon has been an elite coach. I think some of his game plan is still being used today; but in general the game has long gone past him and he should only be considered as an assistant coach.

 

[branedotorg]

As much as I'd love us to play attacking, free-flowing high-scoring football, I'd happily forego that in favour of a more dour defence-first approach if it ultimately makes us more competitive. It's a big 'if', of course - any and all potential changes we make will be, though.

said it before, i like technical football, it can be ugly but systems work when individual effort doesn't and i think we all know Carlton is more a collection of individuals than a team when it comes to game day.

***If it ends up too dour then i reserve the right to be a massive hypocrite at some point in the future***

 

[Matty411]

I think getting the right Head of Football might be more important than who we have as coach.

THIS

 

[ferrisb]

I think getting the right Head of Football might be more important than who we have as coach.

I want a coach that answers to the club.

Not the other way around.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Serious question...how many head coach positions have been filled since he last coached? As far as I can recall, he's not even been in the running for another gig and now suddenly he's our messiah?

I ****ing hate this terminology that carlton fans use now. Just because someone has a reputation before coming to us doesn't make them a ****ing messiah. It's like carltons suddenly not allowed to sign anyone in any role who's had some semblance of success previously because 'oh lol we're going for the messiah again'. So dumb.

 

[smashbox gill]

I think getting the right Head of Football might be more important than who we have as coach.

Agreed we need the next Neil Balme.
I also think Leppitch would be good in this role

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch a Ross Lyon coached team every weekend...

They're fascinating to watch. Cripps will star in his game plan, as will Weits. Defensive footy played properly can still score plenty of points, it's what the tigers have been doing.
The technical and tactical aspects of footy should be enjoyed more than durr more points hurrr duurrrr.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Ross Lyons dour gameplan doesn't exactly instill optimism!

Can't wait to watch 58-44 point games every week.

2013 when they finished 3rd under lyon. Freo averaged 92.5 points per game as far as I can see.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

Ross Lyon would be a great coach, though I’d prefer to see him work with Teague
instead of replacing Teague. Teague has proven he has the attacking nous but clearly needs some help with midfield and defensive structure.

If the players do indeed like DT I think we’re best to support him instead of rocking the boat with a more old school polarising coach. That’s just my take.

I’m no Ross Lyon fan but there’s one thing that stands out to me with him: his ex players generally all love and revere him

I think our players will get onboard quickly enough if it happened

 

[Manhattanite]

2013 when they finished 3rd under lyon. Freo averaged 92.5 points per game as far as I can see.

And a Ross Lyon designed team defense coupled with our potential firepower in Harry Charlie Mitch Jack Owies Honey Martin Fisher etc could score plenty




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[Wickzki]

Personally, the difference between getting a Lyon compared to a Malthouse or Clarkson is that Ross hasn't won a premiership.

That's his motivator. That differentiates him from other 'messiah' choices.

He's done practically everything a coach can do in the AFL except for a premiership.

For Ross it'd be the ultimate feather in his cap. Return to the club he started his coaching journey at, when they were the bottom of the pile, and go and win a flag with them.

As far as defensive tactics go, people forget that there are multiple seasons where Lyon coached teams have averaged close to 100 points per game (2008, 2009 for example).

He hasn't always coached low scoring teams. I argue that this demonstrates an awareness of the strengths and weaknesses of his list and a willingness to adapt to get the best of it. This is something we haven't had since Parkin.

Ross isn't the messiah with nothing but money to gain from coming here. He has as much to gain as what we do. If he gets 17 he'll be immortalized as a Carlton great internally and as an all-time great coach in AFL ranks. Right now, he's in the very good category.

 

[macky99]

Ross Lyon would be a great coach, though I’d prefer to see him work with Teague
instead of replacing Teague. Teague has proven he has the attacking nous but clearly needs some help with midfield and defensive structure.

If the players do indeed like DT I think we’re best to support him instead of rocking the boat with a more old school polarising coach. That’s just my take.

Do we honestly think Lyon would work with Teague as a assistant, he has a job in the media right now, he would not leave that for a assistant role.
The comments players supporting Teague, l do not see as part of the decision, the initial decision to appoint Teague was pretty much on the back of that, it has not translated into growth and improved team performance.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

I think getting the right Head of Football might be more important than who we have as coach.

I think you're spot on Stamos

 

[Max Pepsi]

Personally, the difference between getting a Lyon compared to a Malthouse or Clarkson is that Ross hasn't won a premiership.

That's his motivator. That differentiates him from other 'messiah' choices.

He's done practically everything a coach can do in the AFL except for a premiership.

For Ross it'd be the ultimate feather in his cap. Return to the club he started his coaching journey at, when they were the bottom of the pile, and go and win a flag with them.

As far as defensive tactics go, people forget that there are multiple seasons where Lyon coached teams have averaged close to 100 points per game (2008, 2009 for example).

He hasn't always coached low scoring teams. I argue that this demonstrates an awareness of the strengths and weaknesses of his list and a willingness to adapt to get the best of it. This is something we haven't had since Parkin.

Ross isn't the messiah with nothing but money to gain from coming here. He has as much to gain as what we do. If he gets 17 he'll be immortalized as a Carlton great internally and as an all-time great coach in AFL ranks. Right now, he's in the very good category.

I'm still on the fence about getting Lyon but this is a quality assessment.

 

[Coops93]

Head coach is the most important position in a club. More important than a head of football.

The wrong head coach is more detrimental than the wrong head of football.

 

[KnobHead]

I think getting the right Head of Football might be more important than who we have as coach.

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[JustaBattler]

Head coach is the most important position in a club. More important than a head of football.

Head of football is no.2 though.

On TV when Lyon was asked what the pre-requisites for success are, he said (about head of football role) .." head of football is an important role which sees the person senior enough and capable enough of robust and vigorous challenging of coaching / game plan / team selection as required."...

If this is the role at Calton - clearly both Lloyd and Teague would be under pressure based on W/L ratio if nothing else.

 

[Mezzoculo]

Thinking about Carlton optimistically usually results in one feeling misty optically....

Is that you Dennis?

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Head coach is the most important position in a club. More important than a head of football.

The wrong head coach is more detrimental than the wrong head of football.

I'm not sure mate. You look at Richmond for example and their footy department with Gale & Neil Balme or the Geelong footy department and they're all strong footy people. Having that higher up the chain taking care of things properly I think helps the coaching department to concentrate on coaching and having strong footy people around that are actually approachable and good to give advice again helps the coaches to coach. The mistake we've made here is hiring Teaguey with no real support up the chain. I mean let's it Lloyd came from Fremantle (yeah I know he was in a lesser role at Geelong first) who really didn't accomplish a great deal in his tenure. If we were going to hire a first up coach we needed blokes like Balme higher up to help him through.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

I ******* hate this terminology that carlton fans use now. Just because someone has a reputation before coming to us doesn't make them a ******* messiah. It's like carltons suddenly not allowed to sign anyone in any role who's had some semblance of success previously because 'oh lol we're going for the messiah again'. So dumb.

Quality rant.

It's reasonable to question why a bloke who was considered past it when he was sacked, has been out of a job for 2 years, and has not had an offer in the interim, is suddenly the answer to our problems. Messiah could mean a lot of different things to different people, it's weird to get so hot under the collar about it. It could even just be a throw away line.

 

[I bleed Blue]

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch a Ross Lyon coached team every weekend...

If the game plan works and takes us to a grand final I'll watch any game style, by any coach