Any risk of sacrificing peak to chase improved competitiveness

[wolvesRoos]

Just wondering with the rebuild dragging on and people starting to get quite down about it is there any risk the club could do something to try and become more competitive short term but possibly harming how high we could one day go.

Haven't thought this through. Maybe we trade away pick 1 two years running for an ok defender and a mid range pick who is a bust.

 

[Caracas]

Have to say it’s a large “No” from me, W, given the hole we’re in right now. We’ve made our bed, we need to take our medicine. We “savaged” our list in a very reckless way in the past. We can’t now get weak at the knees - IMO.

 

[nicko74]

Have to say it’s a large “No” from me, W, given the hole we’re in right now. We’ve made our bed, we need to take our medicine. We “savaged” our list in a very reckless way in the past. We can’t now get weak at the knees - IMO.

Correct

 

[DrZaius]

Sigh.

Our short term competitiveness has little or nothing to do with our potential peak and I'm tired of people equating the two.

If rebuilding were a simple correlation of time being shit/time being good then clubs like Freo, St Kilda, Bulldogs and Melbourne would have more than 2 flags between them in the AFL era, Geelong would currently be at the bottom of the ladder alongside us (instead of being at the top yet again), GWS & GC would have dominated the competition for the last 8 years (because y'know they took the high draft pick heavy route we are currently taking), and clubs like Collingwood & Richmond wouldn't be able to have their pick of high profile recruits year on year.

There's a vibe around here that we are simply paying our dues and it will all come good one day because we deserve it, but that's not the reality in a professional sporting competition and especially not in one as compromised/lopsided as ours. Us being competitive enough to be winning 5/6 games has zero bearing on our ability to win flags in a few years time, and an all or nothing approach instead of us utilising all the tools at our disposal (i.e. nailing rookie picks, mid season draft, Cat B rookies, trades, FA etc.) is probably more likely than not to end in failure.

 

[DrZaius]

I swear some on here won't be happy until our entire list is composed of top 5 picks all absolutely elite in their positions

 

[Themanbun]

Sigh.

Our short term competitiveness has little or nothing to do with our potential peak and I'm tired of people equating the two.

If rebuilding were a simple correlation of time being s**t/time being good then clubs like Freo, St Kilda, Bulldogs and Melbourne would have more than 2 flags between them in the AFL era, Geelong would currently be at the bottom of the ladder alongside us (instead of being at the top yet again), GWS & GC would have dominated the competition for the last 8 years (because y'know they took the high draft pick heavy route we are currently taking), and clubs like Collingwood & Richmond wouldn't be able to have their pick of high profile recruits year on year.

There's a vibe around here that we are simply paying our dues and it will all come good one day because we deserve it, but that's not the reality in a professional sporting competition and especially not in one as compromised/lopsided as ours. Us being competitive enough to be winning 5/6 games has zero bearing on our ability to win flags in a few years time, and an all or nothing approach instead of us utilising all the tools at our disposal (i.e. nailing rookie picks, mid season draft, Cat B rookies, trades, FA etc.) is probably more likely than not to end in failure.

Excellent post. 100% agree.

It's not a formula of X time bad = X peak, or X amount of games into kids = X peak.

Anyone trying to sell us that is a snake oil salesman.

 

[Masked Avenger]

Just wondering with the rebuild dragging on and people starting to get quite down about it is there any risk the club could do something to try and become more competitive short term but possibly harming how high we could one day go.

Haven't thought this through. Maybe we trade away pick 1 two years running for an ok defender and a mid range pick who is a bust.

Interesting conundrum and assuming you could only have one.

Hard no for me. Too much pain to want to compromise now. We stay the course - however painful.

I know it seems a million miles away, but a Club of our profile has to win premierships to survive.

 

[hilly]

Sigh.

Our short term competitiveness has little or nothing to do with our potential peak and I'm tired of people equating the two.

If rebuilding were a simple correlation of time being s**t/time being good then clubs like Freo, St Kilda, Bulldogs and Melbourne would have more than 2 flags between them in the AFL era, Geelong would currently be at the bottom of the ladder alongside us (instead of being at the top yet again), GWS & GC would have dominated the competition for the last 8 years (because y'know they took the high draft pick heavy route we are currently taking), and clubs like Collingwood & Richmond wouldn't be able to have their pick of high profile recruits year on year.

There's a vibe around here that we are simply paying our dues and it will all come good one day because we deserve it, but that's not the reality in a professional sporting competition and especially not in one as compromised/lopsided as ours. Us being competitive enough to be winning 5/6 games has zero bearing on our ability to win flags in a few years time, and an all or nothing approach instead of us utilising all the tools at our disposal (i.e. nailing rookie picks, mid season draft, Cat B rookies, trades, FA etc.) is probably more likely than not to end in failure.

Pre-season draft, picks outside of the top 30 of the National Draft etc.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Sigh.

Our short term competitiveness has little or nothing to do with our potential peak and I'm tired of people equating the two.

If rebuilding were a simple correlation of time being s**t/time being good then clubs like Freo, St Kilda, Bulldogs and Melbourne would have more than 2 flags between them in the AFL era, Geelong would currently be at the bottom of the ladder alongside us (instead of being at the top yet again), GWS & GC would have dominated the competition for the last 8 years (because y'know they took the high draft pick heavy route we are currently taking), and clubs like Collingwood & Richmond wouldn't be able to have their pick of high profile recruits year on year.

There's a vibe around here that we are simply paying our dues and it will all come good one day because we deserve it, but that's not the reality in a professional sporting competition and especially not in one as compromised/lopsided as ours. Us being competitive enough to be winning 5/6 games has zero bearing on our ability to win flags in a few years time, and an all or nothing approach instead of us utilising all the tools at our disposal (i.e. nailing rookie picks, mid season draft, Cat B rookies, trades, FA etc.) is probably more likely than not to end in failure.

Which is exactly what Clarkson and Viney said in the Q&A. Using Brisbane, Melbourne, Hawthorn as examples, they said you need to build the team using more than just the draft - but to get the cream in trades and FA you need to be good enough and sustainably good enough to attract them, and that needs a foundation of a talented group coming through together. I wouldn’t expect any major trade moves to be viable for a while yet.

 

[The acurate one]

Which is exactly what Clarkson and Viney said in the Q&A. Using Brisbane, Melbourne, Hawthorn as examples, they said you need to build the team using more than just the draft - but to get the cream in trades and FA you need to be good enough and sustainably good enough to attract them, and that needs a foundation of a talented group coming through together. I wouldn’t expect any major trade moves to be viable for a while yet.

Yes well kind of true.

The 2016 through 2020 draft periods are a real problem. We had 19 plus picks, I didn't bother listing them all.

2016 picks 12 ,34 36,73
2017 picks 4, 23, 65, 72
2018 picks 8, 46, 49
2019 picks 31,34,35
2020 picks 3,13,36, 42, 56.

And we have Simpkin, LDU, Scott, Xerri, larkey, Powell and Zurhaar a rookie. Hardly a game changing collective that lot.
I do though agree as this isn't al clarko & Co's fault. Due to past errors and years of losing before they took over.
I was hoping they would get some leeway, but it seems they're not.
They need to hit up the likes of Scrimshaw and build that way. Our backline with the addition of Logue and Scrimshaw takes on a different dynamic.

Allows Comben to go fwd and bam we have a spine, we are currently spineless .

 

[gokangas]

I swear some on here won't be happy until our entire list is composed of top 5 picks all absolutely elite in their positions

Won't be long the way we are going.

 

[GDUB07]

What you all need to realise is when Tassie comes in a few years, access to talent will be limited. Hence we need to get as much talent now to round out our rebuild. This is what clarko and co are doing. Be patient and have some faith

 

[Passmore]

Yes well kind of true.

The 2016 through 2020 draft periods are a real problem. We had 19 plus picks, I didn't bother listing them all.

2016 picks 12 ,34 36,73
2017 picks 4, 23, 65, 72
2018 picks 8, 46, 49
2019 picks 31,34,35
2020 picks 3,13,36, 42, 56.

And we have Simpkin, LDU, Scott, Xerri, larkey, Powell and Zurhaar a rookie. Hardly a game changing collective that lot.
I do though agree as this isn't al clarko & Co's fault. Due to past errors and years of losing before they took over.
I was hoping they would get some leeway, but it seems they're not.
They need to hit up the likes of Scrimshaw and build that way. Our backline with the addition of Logue and Scrimshaw takes on a different dynamic.

Allows Comben to go fwd and bam we have a spine, we are currently spineless .

Al Clarko and co would be getting plenty of leeway you’d think. They’ve got a lot of work to do.

We need to be keeping our early selections, hopefully adding to them and try to nab a handy role player or three….or four…

 

[The acurate one]

Al Clarko and co would be getting plenty of leeway you’d think. They’ve got a lot of work to do.

We need to be keeping our early selections, hopefully adding to them and try to nab a handy role player or three….or four…

Not via our friends in the media , no slack cutting to be seen .

Yes we do need to nab a couple and we are talking to anyone that will listen.
But it's not easy of course.

 

[Passmore]

Not via our friends in the media , no slack cutting to be seen .

Yes we do need to nab a couple and we are talking to anyone that will listen.
But it's not easy of course.

They don't count. If people decide to listen to Korn etc they deserve what they get. I doubt anyone internal would give a shit.

Yes and we know money talks, well we hope it does, as we're not very attractive otherwise.


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[Samsquanch]

Just wondering with the rebuild dragging on and people starting to get quite down about it is there any risk the club could do something to try and become more competitive short term but possibly harming how high we could one day go.

Haven't thought this through. Maybe we trade away pick 1 two years running for an ok defender and a mid range pick who is a bust.

I can see how that short term success strategy would calm the farm here at big footy but boy oh boy, gee whiz, spots between 9 and 12 will be premium so maybe we need to go harder for a trade deal that lands us the OK defender and two mid range picks who will be busts.

 

[My Left Foote]

Just wondering with the rebuild dragging on and people starting to get quite down about it is there any risk the club could do something to try and become more competitive short term but possibly harming how high we could one day go.

Haven't thought this through. Maybe we trade away pick 1 two years running for an ok defender and a mid range pick who is a bust.

If we're trading pick 1 for years running we'd want to be getting a lot more back than what you propose.

Think of it in these terms would you trade Harley Reid for an okay defender? As for trading pick 1 for a mid range pick who is a bust, well like you say you haven't thought this through.

 

[Caracas]

Sigh.

Our short term competitiveness has little or nothing to do with our potential peak and I'm tired of people equating the two.

If rebuilding were a simple correlation of time being s**t/time being good then clubs like Freo, St Kilda, Bulldogs and Melbourne would have more than 2 flags between them in the AFL era, Geelong would currently be at the bottom of the ladder alongside us (instead of being at the top yet again), GWS & GC would have dominated the competition for the last 8 years (because y'know they took the high draft pick heavy route we are currently taking), and clubs like Collingwood & Richmond wouldn't be able to have their pick of high profile recruits year on year.

There's a vibe around here that we are simply paying our dues and it will all come good one day because we deserve it, but that's not the reality in a professional sporting competition and especially not in one as compromised/lopsided as ours. Us being competitive enough to be winning 5/6 games has zero bearing on our ability to win flags in a few years time, and an all or nothing approach instead of us utilising all the tools at our disposal (i.e. nailing rookie picks, mid season draft, Cat B rookies, trades, FA etc.) is probably more likely than not to end in failure.

Agree with the principle of all this. Nothing is ever guaranteed. However, teams pretty much always do get their crack once they rebuild. That might only give them pre-lims or an appearance(s) in GF. St Kilda are very much a case in point. They “should” have about four extra flags - but they don’t.

 

[Caracas]

View attachment 1976434
I can see how that short term success strategy would calm the farm here at big footy but boy oh boy, gee whiz, spots between 9 and 12 will be premium so maybe we need to go harder for a trade deal that lands us the OK defender and two mid range picks who will be busts.

Reminds me of Scamper in his heyday. Boy, were we more competitive back then.

 

[Samsquanch]

Reminds me of Scamper in his heyday. Boy, were we more competitive back then.

And the Brad top-up before that.