Player Watch #6 Logan McDonald

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.Shotties. said:
For my eye, he's mostly playing as a link out of defence when the first option of going through the corridor isn't working, so sprinting up to the wing, being an option and coming back down to support when he isn't used.

I'm not sure what you're stressed about. The physicality I can take an argument for, but for the games this year when the was playing the leading foward role, he was statistically tracking the same as most of the top fowards today at the same age. His role has change as Amarty has been doing really well as the deep forward.
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We've been fiddling with our tactics a lot (as others have observed) but at the moment both Logan and Hayden seem to be playing higher and are scoring accordingly. Perhaps they're trying to drag defenders out of the D50? Create space for our mids to run in? That has been suggested. I bet we play it a bit differently this week.
 
Kiama Chris said:
We've been fiddling with our tactics a lot (as others have observed) but at the moment both Logan and Hayden seem to be playing higher and are scoring accordingly. Perhaps they're trying to drag defenders out of the D50? Create space for our mids to run in? That has been suggested. I bet we play it a bit differently this week.
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oh come on, that's crazy talk! big forwards are meant to kick six goals a game ... that's just stupid ... how can that possibly work!?! no wonder we're so crap ...
 

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All this angst about his performance and not kicking goals when it has to be realised that he is playing at CHF, not FF. When he was in his draft year the 'experts' were saying he was more like Nick Reiwoldt who would get on his bike and move up the ground a lot. This is why we so often see him get the ball then wheel around and go again - because he is too far from goals to take a shot. At the moment, his role is to get the ball in to someone like Amartey or Papley but every now and then, due to chance or rotation, he finds himself in a position to take the ball within range and his kicks are usually pretty accurate.

At the moment, I think the main thing he needs to work on and develop is his marking. It is possible that his overhead marking may improve as he gets a bit stronger but we don't know that yet. Also, he needs to be able to take the ball with his arms outstretched when on the lead, so that the defender cannot spoil - this is his biggest problem at the moment.

His tank is good, his goal kicking is good, his field kicking is exceptional, so all that remains is for him to improve his marking. Once (if) he does that then we will have a gun player for the next 10 years.
 
dosser said:
All this angst about his performance and not kicking goals when it has to be realised that he is playing at CHF, not FF. When he was in his draft year the 'experts' were saying he was more like Nick Reiwoldt who would get on his bike and move up the ground a lot. This is why we so often see him get the ball then wheel around and go again - because he is too far from goals to take a shot. At the moment, his role is to get the ball in to someone like Amartey or Papley but every now and then, due to chance or rotation, he finds himself in a position to take the ball within range and his kicks are usually pretty accurate.

At the moment, I think the main thing he needs to work on and develop is his marking. It is possible that his overhead marking may improve as he gets a bit stronger but we don't know that yet. Also, he needs to be able to take the ball with his arms outstretched when on the lead, so that the defender cannot spoil - this is his biggest problem at the moment.

His tank is good, his goal kicking is good, his field kicking is exceptional, so all that remains is for him to improve his marking. Once (if) he does that then we will have a gun player for the next 10 years.
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agree with everything in this post ... and i've always regarded mcdonald in that nick riewoldt mould, big, mobile, great long kick, skills everywhere ...
he will get the marking worked out, i'm sure that's just a confidence/physical development thing ... and i think filling in as a backup ruck from time to time will hasten that physical development
but mcdonald's biggest similarity with riewoldt is his football brain, he does so many smart things in tight situations ... a great example is the mark he took in a game several weeks ago, facing away from goals on the boundary about 30m around from the posts, then with players still gatjering around him he fired a 15m lookaway handball over his shoulder to hayward running into an open goal
he's kicked 76 goals in 57 games, not even close to his peak ... and people are still nitpicking him!
 
the hypnotoad said:
agree with everything in this post ... and i've always regarded mcdonald in that nick riewoldt mould, big, mobile, great long kick, skills everywhere ...
he will get the marking worked out, i'm sure that's just a confidence/physical development thing ... and i think filling in as a backup ruck from time to time will hasten that physical development
but mcdonald's biggest similarity with riewoldt is his football brain, he does so many smart things in tight situations ... a great example is the mark he took in a game several weeks ago, facing away from goals on the boundary about 30m around from the posts, then with players still gatjering around him he fired a 15m lookaway handball over his shoulder to hayward running into an open goal
he's kicked 76 goals in 57 games, not even close to his peak ... and people are still nitpicking him!
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Bit of a reach comparing him to Riewoldt. Riewoldt was a strong contested marking focal target in dangerous areas all over the ground who carried the forward half of that team on his back. Amongst working up the ground he was still able to push deep and kick a bag.

All well and good for Logan to work up the ground but his moments are still too far and few between. He seems to lurk around the outskirts of the ball drop, hence his wide heat map stats. He gets caught a couple of steps from hitting a contest consistently. And when he is in a marking contest he likes to work around his opponents and reach in rather than through them. Feels like he's holding himself back and as a result he gets most of his touches in wide - minimally contested situations or during junk time. Dunno if it's lack of confidence in his physical ability or what but he has to start seeing him self as the man. Demand the ball more centrally and understand that he just has to affect contest after contest even if it yields little personal reward for effort. That's the only way he's going to get into the realm of Nick Riewoldt. He absolutely has the tools though, and despite his deficiencies he's still managing to make an impact on the game.
 
zyzzbruh said:
Bit of a reach comparing him to Riewoldt. Riewoldt was a strong contested marking focal target in dangerous areas all over the ground who carried the forward half of that team on his back. Amongst working up the ground he was still able to push deep and kick a bag.

All well and good for Logan to work up the ground but his moments are still too far and few between. He seems to lurk around the outskirts of the ball drop, hence his wide heat map stats. He gets caught a couple of steps from hitting a contest consistently. And when he is in a marking contest he likes to work around his opponents and reach in rather than through them. Feels like he's holding himself back and as a result he gets most of his touches in wide - minimally contested situations or during junk time. Dunno if it's lack of confidence in his physical ability or what but he has to start seeing him self as the man. Demand the ball more centrally and understand that he just has to affect contest after contest even if it yields little personal reward for effort. That's the only way he's going to get into the realm of Nick Riewoldt. He absolutely has the tools though, and despite his deficiencies he's still managing to make an impact on the game.
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he's just turned 22, and playing a role in a dominant team in which the emphasis is on "team" ...
i've never said he is the next nick riewoldt, but that's the best comparison i can think of because i see mcdonald as being potentially that kind of player ...
i just don't see these "deficiencies" as such because the team doesn't require him to carry it and be that same kind of focal point
but i've posted earlier that i think his role will evolve as he develops that physical confidence, and the team will evolve with and around him
 
the hypnotoad said:
he's just turned 22, and playing a role in a dominant team in which the emphasis is on "team" ...
i've never said he is the next nick riewoldt, but that's the best comparison i can think of because i see mcdonald as being potentially that kind of player ...
i just don't see these "deficiencies" as such because the team doesn't require him to carry it and be that same kind of focal point
but i've posted earlier that i think his role will evolve as he develops that physical confidence, and the team will evolve with and around him
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People keep bandying '22' like it such a valid justification - 22 aint that young anymore it's a third of his career already done, and it sure doesn't prevent a player showcasing their attributes. I get the coaches are asking him to play a specific positional role but I'm sure the coaches aren't instructing him to approach a marking contest like a fairy. That is a deficiency. Also, consistently being a step or two away from affecting a contest is a sign that he is holding himself back. These are inherent things, not instructional.

The other concern is that he is the exact same player that he was a couple of years ago, not much has changed. Nick Riewoldt hit the ground running early, and got better year on year.

For me it seems like it's between the ears with him. Mclean was very similar a couple of years back but started realising how big of a man he actually was. Amartey similar. It's not about being the 'focal point' from a positional sense, it's about harnessing the attributes and confidence of one, so that when it is his time to go he is hitting a contest with more vigour. And by vigour i don't mean pile driving bodies, it's just that at the moment he doesn't impose himself towards the ball, instead he tends to shape his body around the contest and reaches in.
 
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I don’t want a Sydney forward regularly kicking 3-4 goals per game. Last week’s game Adelaide was one of the worst games Sydney played all year. It was fun to watch Amartey kick 9 goals, but if he - or Logan - is regularly kicking bags, then our game style will quickly reverting to bombing the ball on key forward heads.

Our team played poorly with Buddy as the focal point. I don’t want us to return to that.

If Logan can present for marks on wings, set up play, keep to structure, bring the ball to ground inside 50, contribute to forward 59 pressure and clunk the odd mark inside 50 and convert for goal (when nothing else is available for the team) - then I will be happy enough.

But I also don’t want Sydney to pay a star full forward salary for Logan’s services.

I’m sure Sydney and Logan are working through the details now and it will all get sorted.
 

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MF said:
Yeah I guess if you discount all those games we won in the 10+ years he was our focal point.
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Would you be more comfortable if it was re-phrased to "we are playing superior football now with multiple focal points"?

Nobody can debate that Buddy was an all-time great. But we saw glimpses last year of a more dangerous, difficult to defend game-style when he was absent & it has been borne-out this year.

We're consistently kicking higher scores & winning more games with the "no dominant focal point" approach. And I think its OK to say that, without it being interpreted as a criticism of Buddy.
 
We are superior to when Buddy was the focal point beyond his prime would be a fair statement. Not being critical of him, I think we failed to adapt to a team and utilise him in a system as effectively as we could have.

He basically was a system for so long
 
Dubai Quacker said:
Would you be more comfortable if it was re-phrased to "we are playing superior football now with multiple focal points"?
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Yes. I think Buddy was a bit of a defensive liability last year, especially with forward 50 pressure and turnovers such a focus of the modern game (and our style in particular) so I'm definitely not saying we were better off with him. I think our forward setup this year is much better than it was with Buddy in it.

I just never bought into the notion that Buddy was holding back the development of the 3 young talls. I think they were always just going to take time, whether Buddy was there or not, and in some ways I think he probably helped, more than hindered them.
 
MF said:
Yes. I think Buddy was a bit of a defensive liability last year, especially with forward 50 pressure and turnovers such a focus of the modern game (and our style in particular) so I'm definitely not saying we were better off with him. I think our forward setup this year is much better than it was with Buddy in it.

I just never bought into the notion that Buddy was holding back the development of the 3 young talls. I think they were always just going to take time, whether Buddy was there or not, and in some ways I think he probably helped, more than hindered them.
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Buddy or no Buddy I think we have changed our tactics quite a lot this year. The talls are much further apart and at least one is higher much of the time, dragging a KPD higher. Hayward is playing closer to goal with JJ playing defensive half forward. Wicks and Papley are both bringing a lot of energy. The mids are running into F50 leaving their opponents behind.
Really difficult to deal with as our points scored demonstrates.
Credit to the coaches.
 
On sportsday gerard healy asked a multiple choice question and it was how many 1v1 contests has logan won this year:
A. 8/15
B. 4/15
C. 1/15

Well.. this answer is C hes only won 1/15. Sorry you cant command nuch more than an above avg wage taking into account potential and growth at this stage
 
wills2g said:
On sportsday gerard healy asked a multiple choice question and it was how many 1v1 contests has logan won this year:
A. 8/15
B. 4/15
C. 1/15

Well.. this answer is C hes only won 1/15. Sorry you cant command nuch more than an above avg wage taking into account potential and growth at this stage
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great statistic! and seeing as this is the only thing that matters in a forward, we should let mcdonald go ...
you've obviously noted he brings absolutely nothing else to the team ...
 
the hypnotoad said:
great statistic! and seeing as this is the only thing that matters in a forward, we should let mcdonald go ...
you've obviously noted he brings absolutely nothing else to the team ...
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Hes our number 1 kpf ignoring recency bias in amarteys form

He just needs to compete in the air stronger and have a physical presence

For a fwd playing in a team with our current form hes not performing as well as he could

Im not saying let him go but we shouldnt overpay with his current output
 
wills2g said:
Hes our number 1 kpf ignoring recency bias in amarteys form

He just needs to compete in the air stronger and have a physical presence

For a fwd playing in a team with our current form hes not performing as well as he could

Im not saying let him go but we shouldnt overpay with his current output
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as far as i'm concerned he's doing what's being asked of him by the club in a team that's clearly the best in the league at the moment
i'm sure the club will work out a suitable financial arrangement based on the role it sees mcdonald fulfilling now and into the future ... or they won't, in which case he might leave, and i'd be one of many very saddened and disappointed by such an outcome

what gets me is these posts pulling out various individual statistics that completely dismiss what we're all seeing on the field in terms of the team's performance

how about goal assists/involvements? i'd reckon he's doing pretty well in those statistics
 
wills2g said:
Hes our number 1 kpf ignoring recency bias in amarteys form

He just needs to compete in the air stronger and have a physical presence

For a fwd playing in a team with our current form hes not performing as well as he could

Im not saying let him go but we shouldnt overpay with his current output
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i don't mean to be disrespectful, you're entitled to your opinion on mcdonald ... but assuming he re-signs with the swans, i suspect you and many others are already going to be criticising whatever big-money deal he accepts
but in my argument i'll use the example of heeney: if you go back over the past 4-5 years you'll find hundreds of posts on this board voicing anger and frustration at heeney, and insisting he was never worth whatever money he was guesstimated to be on, and in fact many posters were willing to see him leave the club
i concede he took longer to get to the season he's having now than most would've liked, but can you imagine the outrage now on this board had heeney been allowed to leave, and we were now watching him in other colours!?
mcdonald is still learning and still growing ... he's ours and i want it to stay that way
 
the hypnotoad said:
as far as i'm concerned he's doing what's being asked of him by the club in a team that's clearly the best in the league at the moment
i'm sure the club will work out a suitable financial arrangement based on the role it sees mcdonald fulfilling now and into the future ... or they won't, in which case he might leave, and i'd be one of many very saddened and disappointed by such an outcome

what gets me is these posts pulling out various individual statistics that completely dismiss what we're all seeing on the field in terms of the team's performance

how about goal assists/involvements? i'd reckon he's doing pretty well in those statistics
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Being stronger in the air and having more physical presence is a fair and reasonable expectation for a kpf of his hype. You can't tell me he is being instructed to hold back.

No one is doubting the other strengths in his game which he is currently displaying
 
wills2g said:
On sportsday gerard healy asked a multiple choice question and it was how many 1v1 contests has logan won this year:
A. 8/15
B. 4/15
C. 1/15

Well.. this answer is C hes only won 1/15. Sorry you cant command nuch more than an above avg wage taking into account potential and growth at this stage
Click to expand...
I'm actually interested how this is calculated. He's taken multiple 1v1 or pack marks this near. Not a huge amount, but more than one.
 

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Player Watch #6 Logan McDonald

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