List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[Diehard Saint]

It is hideous and from what Lyon said. It is coming from Dodoro not the Saints.
Gresham and 13 for Sheil

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Never in a million years would we be so stupid……( I hope )

 

[George]

Would you trade a second for a multiple time AA premiership player?

Let's not let facts get in the way

The irony lmao. Conveniently leaving out that Hannebery's body was completely cooked and only managed 15 games the year before he came to us after routinely playing 20+ throughout his career before that.

We waited 14 rounds due to soft tissue injuries before he made his debut in 2019 and we all know the history after that.

You speak of him like he was still a world beater when we traded for him. He wasn't, he was a shell of the player he used to be. Would be good to give a fair assessment of the situation rather than ignore the type of player he was at the end of 2018. There's a reason a good club like Sydney got rid of him.

It was a shit trade, signs of a desperate loser club. For all the garbage about his 'leadership', the guys off-field behaviour was suspect to say the least, and we didn't do any better on-field by bringing him in. He wasn't some impetus of our climb into finals in 2020 (guy played 8 games lol) and we missed finals in 3 of the 4 years he was there. No new leaders came through under his watch, in fact in 2023 it's been the young blokes who have shown signs of leadership that we haven't had in years. We should've gone to the draft and rebuilt properly - we would've had more of these Owens, Pou, Windhager types by now if we did, instead of pissing about with injury ravaged players who don't take care of themselves.

 

[gringo2011]

Chad Warner would have been a great pick. Same with Coleman but then maybe we dont draft Nasiah who is looked just as good.

But it's really not worth the time or energy to be bothered about missing out on the majority of the players you listed.

All look much better than Hanners at this point. Rivers is a premiership player and very good. Comben looks like he'll be a gun. Bryan we'd have liked to steal and Jones stared like a house on fire and I expect him to jump back next year. Essendon were playing mature players over kids this year to try to make finals under Scott. He's a giant athletic wingman more than a forward IMO and looks like he could be pretty unique.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

We gave up most of 2019 and 2020s draft picks to pay for them. It looks like we'll get Byrnes as the only drafted player left from 2 drafts. One where we started at pick 6.

It's taking away the future because while we should have been drafting we had a minor jump and sat us out of the best picks in the next drafts as well. It's pushed us into purgatory instead of taking our medicine when we should have.

We sold off picks for years on older C graders and even chased older guys in the state leagues. Parker, Young, Hind. We picked up guys like Rubbertits, Carlisle, Weller, Austin, Freeman, Hanners, Hill, Howard, Butler, Hickey, Longer, Snags, Campbell, Savage, Brown, Rowe, McKernan, Marsh etc.

Membrey, Steele, Wood, Bruce, Marshall and Wilkie have all worked out well.

The last couple of drafts have been done in a disciplined way and not tried to cheat gravity and look much more like how normal clubs operate. Paying top dollar and trade capital for your middling talent is a great way to stay s**t longer. Serong over Hill and Howard looks like a shame in hindsight.

FMD


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[Premium]

I still believe a couple teams will attempt to offload a couple players to get salary cap space.
People are saying the Bombers have cap space to burn , well they might have right now but with there high draft picks getting paid peanuts atm you would expect that is going to take a bit of money to keep them.
Perkins , Caldwell , Cox , Durham , Davey , Jones , Tsatas , Martin ---- (all these 8 would be on the bare minimum except for Caldwell) and others like McGrath , Guelfi ,( Stringer , Shiel --- these 2 will most probably be delisted)all come off contract next year with a bunch of others.

So if you hike there money from 250k for what they are on in the draft years to just the average now they are talking about which they say is going to be around 600k
They are going to need at least 2.8 million - take off Shiel and they still need to find at least 2 million to stave off other teams poaching there players and that is not a high estimate.

You can see why they need money if the are going to pay for McKay and Gresham.

The Dogs are in the same boat a long with a few other teams like Carlton , Suns and GWS.

We are in a great position to snare anyone good who becomes available.

 

[Teflon]

Chris Scott and Ross Lyon nailed it.

North are building one of the most formidable midfields in decades with many top 5 picks over the last 4 years. All because they decided to blow their list up and become very bad.

They should not get any more assistance. Period.

Scott and Lyon didn’t hold back. Laura Kane should take note. The clubs are growing increasingly resentful with all forms of targeted assistance. These include the Northern academies.

They might but watch this
When we genuinely need a gave up the AFL will come out with
“We can’t compromise the competition”
It’s a fricken joke enough to pull the pin in this rubbish
So compromised
Father sons, NGAs, Academies, priority picks, special deals for the plastic clubs…. goes on…

 

[GTrains Love Child]

In terms of the playing list, Lyon was asked whether he’d spoken to reported St Kilda trade target Dylan Shiel.

While Lyon didn’t deny that the club was interested in the Don, he refused to admit any talks had happened and pondered where the noise of a potential move had come from.

“Well as a club, we don't sort of conduct our business in the media,” Lyon said.

“There's a lot of noise around it.

“I know he missed the last 10 rounds with quite a few injuries.

“It (the noise) certainly wasn't generated from us.

“So I'm not sure where that's all come from, to be honest.”

Shiel played 12 games in 2023 but was the activated substitute on two occasions. He missed much of the back end of the season with a foot injury.

It’s a great clap back at Dildo isn’t it…

“Well as a club, we don't sort of conduct our business in the media”

Christ that bloke is an absolute tool

 

[Yawkey way]

You seriously going back 10, 15, 20 years? Come on what bad trades have we done in the last 5 years?
Paddy Ryder, great trade
Howard, ok, not a disaster
Hill, overpaid but had his best year and arguably our best player in the final
Jones, an I jury bust really
Butler has been good, so three out of 5
Higgins, been good.
Cordy, depth only
Our drafting since 2017 has been good
Coff and Clark, jury still out
King
Allison a miss but we got Crouch for free
Naz, Windy, chito
Pou, Hotton, Keeler, Van Es, haven't seen the last three.
If you have to go back to more than five years it means FA, nobody is at the place anymore and the drafting and trading has been on target for years.
Everything else is just pearl clutching and bed wetting.

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You asked when and I gave you a sample, unfortunately we’ve got form when it comes to some less than stellar trading. Yes we’ve been better lately but I’m always glad when the trade period is over and this year will be no different. When we’ve made it through without overpaying or trading out players for nothing then you can crow. Your own examples don’t hold water hill was a lousy trade and so was Howard.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The irony lmao. Conveniently leaving out that Hannebery's body was completely cooked and only managed 15 games the year before he came to us after routinely playing 20+ throughout his career before that.

We waited 14 rounds due to soft tissue injuries before he made his debut in 2019 and we all know the history after that.

You speak of him like he was still a world beater when we traded for him. He wasn't, he was a shell of the player he used to be. Would be good to give a fair assessment of the situation rather than ignore the type of player he was at the end of 2018. There's a reason a good club like Sydney got rid of him.

It was a s**t trade, signs of a desperate loser club. For all the garbage about his 'leadership', the guys off-field behaviour was suspect to say the least, and we didn't do any better on-field by bringing him in. He wasn't some impetus of our climb into finals in 2020 (guy played 8 games lol) and we missed finals in 3 of the 4 years he was there. No new leaders came through under his watch, in fact in 2023 it's been the young blokes who have shown signs of leadership that we haven't had in years. We should've gone to the draft and rebuilt properly - we would've had more of these Owens, Pou, Windhager types by now if we did, instead of pissing about with injury ravaged players who don't take care of themselves.

Was a really, really poor decision. Many on here, including me actually, said that when it was first mooted. Whether we had to use salary cap or whatever. I didn’t understand their thinking then, nor do I still now.

At least with Shiel, IF it nets us a first rounder I can see the thinking behind that.
It’s also not taking a list spot for 4/5 years.

 

[kernelT]

The irony lmao. Conveniently leaving out that Hannebery's body was completely cooked and only managed 15 games the year before he came to us after routinely playing 20+ throughout his career before that.

We waited 14 rounds due to soft tissue injuries before he made his debut in 2019 and we all know the history after that.

You speak of him like he was still a world beater when we traded for him. He wasn't, he was a shell of the player he used to be. Would be good to give a fair assessment of the situation rather than ignore the type of player he was at the end of 2018. There's a reason a good club like Sydney got rid of him.

It was a s**t trade, signs of a desperate loser club. For all the garbage about his 'leadership', the guys off-field behaviour was suspect to say the least, and we didn't do any better on-field by bringing him in. He wasn't some impetus of our climb into finals in 2020 (guy played 8 games lol) and we missed finals in 3 of the 4 years he was there. No new leaders came through under his watch, in fact in 2023 it's been the young blokes who have shown signs of leadership that we haven't had in years. We should've gone to the draft and rebuilt properly - we would've had more of these Owens, Pou, Windhager types by now if we did, instead of pissing about with injury ravaged players who don't take care of themselves.

OMG, stop living in the past you sad campaigner, it's all about the new breed… gubby allen, SOS and Dylan shogun Shiel.

Was Gubby the one who was hiding Whitfield away from the WADA testers when he was on a cousins sized bender?

 

[Premium]

How many votes did Shiel get in the Brownlow.

 

[Bertha]

How? You let Gresham go for a pick. Give that pick back to them for Shiel.

Nothing to do with giving them Gresham. Gresham is a FA and can go where he wants. We get compensated and hand that pick straight back to them in a trade for Sheil.

Because it's being discussed that Essendon are offering more in order to trigger the band 1, so it's together, your losing a player you have the option to retain and then giving back the compensation you got for said player. If you retained the player and traded them out you'd get a pick, so it's the equivalent of giving two picks for Shiel.

 

[stavro#4]

It’s been so long since Harves.

I would love another brownlow medalist

 

[Joffaboy]

Those who live in the past, die in the present.

The list of grievances and unprovable sliding doors is the most pathetic and psychotic I have witnessed from the past half dozen pre seasons.
Would have thought making the finals with the youngest list and second worst injury list would have been time for optimistic reflection.
Instead we get the incessant looking back 10 years, making up garbage as fact and constantly acting like victims and absolute fatalistic losers.
Really brings the forum down and it is a sad reflection on the mentality of some so called supporters.

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[Ads734]

It’s been so long since Harves.

I would love another brownlow medalist

Pou or Chito

 

[gubby88]

Those who live in the past, die in the present.

The list of grievances and unprovable sliding doors is the most pathetic and psychotic I have witnessed from the past half dozen pre seasons.
Would have thought making the finals with the youngest list and second worst injury list would have been time for optimistic reflection.
Instead we get the incessant looking back 10 years, making up garbage as fact and constantly acting like victims and absolute fatalistic losers.
Really brings the forum down and it is a sad reflection on the mentality of some so called supporters.

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Nah no way, we gave up a whole future for hanneberry and Hill. Absolutely killed the clubs future...




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[Diehard Saint]

Those who live in the past, die in the present.

The list of grievances and unprovable sliding doors is the most pathetic and psychotic I have witnessed from the past half dozen pre seasons.
Would have thought making the finals with the youngest list and second worst injury list would have been time for optimistic reflection.
Instead we get the incessant looking back 10 years, making up garbage as fact and constantly acting like victims and absolute fatalistic losers.
Really brings the forum down and it is a sad reflection on the mentality of some so called supporters.

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Agreed.
Time (past time) to move on. We’ve had a far more successful year than anyone of us could have imagined with so much exciting youth to look forward to watching over the next decade and finally a coaching and management team who look like they know what they are doing and where they are heading.

 

[George]

Was a really, really poor decision. Many on here, including me actually, said that when it was first mooted. Whether we had to use salary cap or whatever. I didn’t understand their thinking then, nor do I still now.

At least with Shiel, IF it nets us a first rounder I can see the thinking behind that.
It’s also not taking a list spot for 4/5 years.

I'll never understand the argument that we had money to spend so why spend it. We could've literally gone after any other player but chose the guy who the entire industry knew had soft tissue concerns and was as banged up as anyone.

Gee we have made some bloody brain-dead decisions over the years. Instead of investing into the draft, we flung picks away to other clubs and obsessed over mature age over the hill types. Absolutely stupid way to rebuild the list and instead of having a core group of young kids who would be in their prime right now, we took half a dozen years to finally rebuild properly and look at how much better that's been for us. Windhager Owens Pou Nas etc from what, 1-2 drafts? Imagine if we began this years ago instead of pissing away picks for duds like Hanners.

 

[Atomboy]

We gave up most of 2019 and 2020s draft picks to pay for them. It looks like we'll get Byrnes as the only drafted player left from 2 drafts. One where we started at pick 6.

It's taking away the future because while we should have been drafting we had a minor jump and sat us out of the best picks in the next drafts as well. It's pushed us into purgatory instead of taking our medicine when we should have.

We sold off picks for years on older C graders and even chased older guys in the state leagues. Parker, Young, Hind. We picked up guys like Rubbertits, Carlisle, Weller, Austin, Freeman, Hanners, Hill, Howard, Butler, Hickey, Longer, Snags, Campbell, Savage, Brown, Rowe, McKernan, Marsh etc.

Membrey, Steele, Wood, Bruce, Marshall and Wilkie have all worked out well.

The last couple of drafts have been done in a disciplined way and not tried to cheat gravity and look much more like how normal clubs operate. Paying top dollar and trade capital for your middling talent is a great way to stay s**t longer. Serong over Hill and Howard looks like a shame in hindsight.

Who is “Rubbertits” ?.

This made me laugh.

 

[The Jack]

How many votes did Shiel get in the Brownlow.

Same as Gresh.

 

[tomjoad]

So you'd do the trade again?

But, but...the standards at training...the leadership...the 18 games he played
I have to admit, when he got on the park we looked better, and Brut is right, he WAS good for the final we won...and we had to spend the money.
But there is NO F*CKING WAY IN HELL that I would do that trade again. As for Howard, Butler, Hill, Zac and Paddy...it was a nice sugar hit that went well with the romanticism of Good guy Ratts taking the helm and taking us to a semi up North whilst that nasty flu was going around. Long term though the strategy hasn't exactly been a success. Middling yes, but successful...nah.
I'm not sure we would be any worse off if we had of just hit the draft and got some MIDS like we've been crying out for since 2011. At least if we had of drafted a few mids in 2019 we would still be clinging onto their potential instead of looking at broken down mercenaries or guys hitting the twilight of their careers.
As for this Shiel nonsense...Raph is clearly on the gear. It's absolutely moronic, and he clearly needs help. The Herald Sun must hate him to have published it.

 

[Remboy]

It’s been so long since Harves.

I would love another brownlow medalist

I’d prefer a flag.

 

[kernelT]

Those who live in the past, die in the present.

The list of grievances and unprovable sliding doors is the most pathetic and psychotic I have witnessed from the past half dozen pre seasons.
Would have thought making the finals with the youngest list and second worst injury list would have been time for optimistic reflection.
Instead we get the incessant looking back 10 years, making up garbage as fact and constantly acting like victims and absolute fatalistic losers.
Really brings the forum down and it is a sad reflection on the mentality of some so called supporters.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I would rather live in reality than some absurd pompous superiority fantasy where my opinion on a footy forum matters more than anyone else, but you do you.

The Bill Belichick quote is like some cringey cult line, pushed to stop people asking why the church is so weird and dysfunctional.

This one is probably more relevant.

There are no shortcuts to building a team each season. You build the foundation brick by brick.

 

[FrogDude]

I'll never understand the argument that we had money to spend so why spend it. We could've literally gone after any other player but chose the guy who the entire industry knew had soft tissue concerns and was as banged up as anyone.

Hannebery had little to no soft tissue injuries at Sydney. They all developed at St Kilda, he was cooked ever since his knock in the 2016 Grand Final to his knee.

Dumb trade but lets not make up false narratives about his injuries at St Kilda being related to his time at Sydney

 

[MightySaint]

Hannebery had little to no soft tissue injuries at Sydney. They all developed at St Kilda, he was cooked ever since his knock in the 2016 Grand Final to his knee.

Dumb trade but lets not make up false narratives about his injuries at St Kilda being related to his time at Sydney

That's not correct, it was widely spoken about on this forum before the trade that there were significant injury concerns.