sr36
TheBrownDog
It's an advantage to WCE when they play North in Banbury. It's an advantage to Collingwood when you play us in Marvel. But neither are as big an advantage as they'd be at the G or Optus.
Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2
- Thread starter Hank Heavenly
- Start date
- Tagged users None
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
It's an advantage to WCE when they play North in Banbury. It's an advantage to Collingwood when you play us in Marvel. But neither are as big an advantage as they'd be at the G or Optus.
There is more nuance to the simple definitions.
Melbourne based team travel for a home game.
Pretty obvious that North playing Freo at Optus is a full home advantage game to Freo (despite it being listed as an away game).
North playing WC at Bunbury, is not the same advantage to WC that Freo enjoy, as they also don't play at Bunbury, but clearly is not an away disadvantage game.
But the VICBias wowser position is WC and Freo both still face a full away disadvantage in those games and North enjoy home ground advantage.
Yeah, if WC play more games at a ground are they more familiar.
What is more important to a home ground advantage, familiarity with the ground or travel?
That's life. Los Angeles sports teams have to travel more than teams on the east Coast because most of the USA population is on the East Coast. You can't help geography, so you might as well stop sooking about it.
The teams that have to travel more frequently than others also get to HOST teams who travel to them more frequently.
Perth teams, for instance get to HOST travelling teams (usually 10 times per year) who travel a combined 30,000 kilometers to play them. A huge advantage.
Essendon get to HOST travelling teams (usually 5 times per year) who only travel a combined 7,000 kms a year. Not much of an advantage.
You are not a victim.
Log in to remove this Banner Ad
How can it be an advantage we have never played there before ?? ....so it's advantage due to travel ??
But playing the Pies at marvel is not your home ground so how can it be an advantage ??....again is that due to travel ?
Love the mental gymnastics of Vic club supporters.
sr36
TheBrownDog
The WA teams are disadvataged by cumulative travel. But they're not in terms of individual games - each time they fly across the country there's a corresponding game where a team flies across the country to play them.
It's proof of how many of the non-Victorian see themselves. The hypocrisy of course is that they are anything but
sr36
TheBrownDog
Yes there's a travel advantage/disadvatage.
WCE have 11 games where they're advantaged by travel. 3 neutral travel games. And 9 games where they're disadvataged by travel. A good ratio in that respect.
The question is the impact of cumulative travel over the course of the season. I think it's a disadvantage for the WA teams due to the length of flights. SA - 4 extra return flights to Melbourne than the low travel Vic teams over the course of a 25 week season - I think it's pretty minor - and it's the same travel as a couple of the Vic teams.
You have to compare with your opponent.
Advantage / Disadvantage needs to be opposite for each game, to create overall equibrium for each game.
A simplistic starting point is NM hosting WC at Marvel, which if full home advantage at preferred home ground, very familiar with the ground, in front of fans, no travel etc. and opposite apply to WC - so it is full home advantage to NM +10, and full away disadvantage of -10 to North.
But if North aren't playing at preferred home ground (either are WC), North aren't familiar with the ground (either are WC), North have to travel outside of their home state (WC stay in WA), North will give up crowd support (WC will have crowd) what does advantage / disadvantage become? North move into the negative because of more travel but is is what -2 to NM and +2 to WC?
How much weight people place on different factors will detail how much disadvantage North experience and WC enjoy.
But what is fact, North are giving up their home ground advantage, and the WA teams benefit from not experiencing an away disadvantage.
Same logic, Collingwood are the team losing an element of our advantage when having to play at Marvel.
But how much does ground familiarity count?
If the G gives us a +10, is Marvel a +8 or +6?
What is fact again, is it is the Melbourne based team losing their advantage and the non-vic team seeing their disadvantage reduce.
VICBias at work again.
What happens to "travel disadvantage" in instances where teams choose to stay between games?
Or like the Pies and Dockers this weekend, who just continue on from gather round without going home?
Pies are already up in QLD, just like Brisbane both teams travelled from SA to QLD and will now hav the week in QLD before the Easter Thursday clash.
Where is the travel advantage / disadvantage for Collingwood or Brisbane?
sr36
TheBrownDog
With Qld, part of their travel advantage is climate. I think that's one of the reasons for us to fly straight up there.
Darwin is the secondary home ground you really don't want to get fixtured to for that reason. No one will head up there in Winter and beat Good Coast.
So Geelong travel to MCG to play Collingwood = Neutral?
Geelong travel to Marvel to play St. Kilda = Neutral?
And St. Kilda travel to KP to play Geelong = Disadvantage?
And Collingwood travel to KP (Wait that doesn’t happen)
Umm, try again Essendon travel to KP to play Geelong = Disadvantage.
Is that correct?
So the actual travel aspect is minimal?
Climate is just a ground familiarity factor, Brisbane are used to playing in the more humid conditions.
Again, travel isn't the issue.
Gold Coast themselves travel to Darwin, but they are advantaged despite travel.
Ground familiarity seems to trump travel.
sr36
TheBrownDog
The WA teams with the longest flights there and away have the biggest difference in percentages of wins at home versus away.
So you are giving a number figure to advantage/disadvantage based on three factors home crowd ground familiarity travel ..right ??
So the kangas playing us at Hands ...they don't have the crowd not used to the ground and they have to travel. Compared to the eagles who have less travel don't know the ground but have the crowd ...so the eagles have overall advantage ?
As the eagles have less travel and the crowd
So compare that to the pies playing the eagles at marvel . It's not the pies home ground but they have the crowd and they have less travel ?...to the eagles who have to travel don't have the crowd but have a bit of familiarity with the ground ?.....so the pies have overall advantage ?
As the pies have the crowd and less travel ?
So based upon the two situations above ..the factors for advantage is based upon the crowd and travel....as all teams are not playing on there home grounds
What period you referring to?
From 2010 to now, Geelong has the biggest discrepancy (25%) - 80% win at home and 55% away
Hawks are 2nd, GC are 3rd both with a discrepancy above 20%
Freo are like Adelaide, both with 19% difference.
Yes that was the simple assumption.
More detailed models may add in more factors.
Correct.
North have made a commercial decision to put $$ ahead of on-field.
They have given away home ground advantage.
Freo the big beneficiary, as they get an "away" game on their home ground.
WC don't get the full home ground advantage, but they now have an "away" game at a neutral venue in WA where they will have majority of crowd support.
VICBias at play again.
Depends on how you rate each factor, and what is most important in providing an advantage.
Is ground familiarity more important than travel?
Is crowd the big influence on home ground advantage? Also noting Pies get shit crowds at Marvel as fans don't go...as it isn't home.
In those two circumstances yes, ground familiarity is basically redundant as neither familiar in Bunbury and WC playing 4 times to Pies 3 again is negligible.
And in both scenarios it is the Melbourne based clubs giving away their ground familiarity advantage.
Tis why the premise of only 3 options (home advantage, neutral or away disadvantage) I think is a bit redundant and not reflective of the different scenarios.
Taking a look at WC 2025 fixture
10 full home advantage games (at Optus against non WA team)
3 neutral games - 2 WA Derbies + 1 gather round
6 full away disadvantage games (away from WA at preferred home ground of opponent)
Then have 4 other games that don't nearly fit
1 being "away" to North at a neutral venue in WA ( give that small advantage to WC)
3 being "away" games at neutral venues (WC actually more familiar than their opponent) outside of WA, so WC still travel - (give that small disadvantage to WC)
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
Yes all correct.
Geelong "travelling" to the MCG (and Marvel) is, of, course neutral. Geelong play at the MCG 6-7 times per year, have around half the crowd support and there is no meaningful travel involved.
All of your analysis is correct.
- Feb 13, 2011
- 12,414
- 15,780
- AFL Club
- Richmond
And play more teams that have to travel. That's an advantage.
I always look at it like this.
Who's situation would I like more if I was starting up a club? WCs where you travel roughly every 2nd week from WA or Collingwood (as an example) where you can sometimes have 7 game stretches where you don't leave your home town, I know which one I would prefer.
I'd be interested if there were VIC team supporters that would choose the WC circumstances over a big Victorian clubs circumstances.
Who's situation would I like more if I was starting up a club? WCs where you travel roughly every 2nd week from WA or Collingwood (as an example) where you can sometimes have 7 game stretches where you don't leave your home town, I know which one I would prefer.
I'd be interested if there were VIC team supporters that would choose the WC circumstances over a big Victorian clubs circumstances.
cartwright
Brownlow Medallist
Ok. Give us your draft concessions . . And we’ll take your “travel”
Hahaha a gws supporter taking about disadvantages
Ask the statistics.
In every sport.
For all time.
And then tell the statistics.
They are wrong.
Will be removed once Tassie comes in by balancing the fixture, so I’m reliably informed.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll