Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVIII

[BrunoV]

You missed my point.
If someone plays the whole season then sure you have a case. Problem was Long didn’t and was injured. You can not say he could do this or that week in and week out because he didn’t.

You don’t have to lecture me on Tsatas. I was in the minority that was a strong no.

As for Hobbs I was not really in his camp either. Liked his leadership and hardness but I was not a fan of another 180 cm midfielder.

You simply can’t not say Long should have gone top 20 based on 3 games. It is a total hindsight thing to say.
I understand what you are saying as far as prototype player but it is totally unrealistic to say you can nail it based on three games.
Different story if he plays even 12 games and they are at a similar level.

I was more a Goater fan in that draft. Bigger size midfielder. Did not mind Knevit either.

I didn't say where Long should have been drafted, just that no sensible analysis would have had him 50 picks later that Hobbs.

Don't get me wrong, this is not just an Essendon problem. If Long didn't have a Collingwood connection he'd not be on an AFL list. He'd be playing VFL beating the piss out of AFL players like Ben Hobbs.

As I keep saying it's about having a coherent set of principles the recruiters can use to make predictions so that they can make good calls, rather than making calls based on dogma.

 

[Nicholas61]

It's only hindsight if you don't have a clear set of recruiting principles that can't filter out the noise.

Hopefully under Rosa we have the element of the Swans recruiting methodology where they simply put a line through certain players if they have something that won't translate at the top level. For example hopefully we do it with guys with poor disposal, spatial awareness with cream picks.

 

[rumply]

wow Doggies, nice goal.

 

[Zach Package]

When you're 6'4, built like the proverbial, are a hardball specialist with a wingman's engine, yes, the quality of your kicking is not a defining factor of your game. But this cannot be extrapolated to excuse players like Tsatas, Parish and Hobbs.

The key difference is the capacity of Long, just like Jobe Watson, to effectively bring players around him into the game. That was also Cripps early on, he was not a great kick. It applies / applied to Fyfe, Danger, Judd and Swan because of their ability to bust a stoppage / congestion to pieces regardless of whether someone is / was trying to stop them.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Hustwaite who is essentially Ned Long who can kick.


Edit: and there is George Stevens at Geelong.

And yet, Long is in the same situation as Hobbs and Tsatas are in and Parish at one stage was in, in that, when they are featured in his preferred position, they look awesome, when he plays a bit part, half forward flank role he doesn’t look an AFL player.

Big or small, invest time in someone and play them in their preferred position that suits their skill set and profit. And his skill set is go contest to contest, extract and feed, don’t need to be big or kick it well to do that.

The takeaway is the AFL system is essentially high school and you just need to be accepted into a clique before time runs out, whether that is nerds, geeks or bongheads.

 

[ant555]

One has to wonder WTF the Melbourne list management team are doing. Yes, they built a flag winning side with strong competitors and a strong defensive unit but they have continually wasted all of this by having no decent KP forwards. The squeezed enough out of Brown to win the flag but is has been a train wreck for the last 3 seasons.

 

[JayJ20]

One has to wonder WTF the Melbourne list management team are doing. Yes, they built a flag winning side with strong competitors and a strong defensive unit but they have continually wasted all of this by having no decent KP forwards. The squeezed enough out of Brown to win the flag but is has been a train wreck for the last 3 seasons.

They could have gotten away with it like Collingwood if their smalls and mediums were better. Kosi is their only good small forward so they pretty much have no forwardline.

 

[JayJ20]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but North have taken the wrong approach to their list build.

Spent significant draft capital on inside mids and now the game is trending towards outside run.

They'll probably be fine, but they should have invested more on outside run and small forwards.

 

[ghostdog]

I didn't watch Carten v West Coast yesterday, but the ABC has mowed that game down with these paragraphs that I thought many of you might get a kick out of, save for maybe the last one;

"Identifying a low ebb from the afternoon is tough. Was it Charlie Curnow

35

Charlie Curnow

Age

29

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

missing a five-metre handball to a teammate in an open goal and accidentally rushing a behind?

It could have been Jake Waterman

2

Jake Waterman

Age

27

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

2star

K

7.8

3star

HB

2.0

1star

M

5.8

5star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

12.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

trying to sidestep Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

31

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

on centre wing, only to forget to actually change directions before running straight into the Carlton defenders' arms.

Maybe it was Jack Williams's brain overheating and shutting down when all alone 20 metres from goal, neither passing or shooting and instead chipping it to nothing and through for a point.

It was a punishing watch at times, and the only subsection of the population to have taken any joy from it at all would be Carlton supporters. But even their solace was tainted by a concussion to the returning Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

28

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

and a serious late injury to Brodie Kemp."

 

[ghostdog]

Just remembered learning yesterday that when Petracca was in hospital after nearly dying, the MFC didn't even reach out to the family. That blew my mind.

 

[raskolnikov]

I don't like Richmond but I wouldn't mind them beating Freo here. Would put them two games in front of Melbourne too.

 

[Zach Package]

Vossy doing a Warnie 700th wicket celebration.

A fun player, if we’re going to be shit, I’d at least want us to have a bit of fun with it.

 

[jannissary]

Vossy doing a Warnie 700th wicket celebration.

A fun player, if we’re going to be shit, I’d at least want us to have a bit of fun with it.

thought the same thing, i love it

 

[raskolnikov]

I didn't realise we had another match today against GWS.

 

[justlookingaround]

nice one Packo

 

[doug85]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but North have taken the wrong approach to their list build.

Spent significant draft capital on inside mids and now the game is trending towards outside run.

They'll probably be fine, but they should have invested more on outside run and small forwards.

I agree with all of this except for the point they’ll probably be fine.

They’re going to have to be very smart in the drafting and trading in the next 3 years to fill the holes on their list. They’re not going to have access to the cream of the draft because:
A, they traded out their first pick this year. Which probably would have been a top 4 pick.
B, the next 3 drafts will be comprised AF.

 

[justlookingaround]

Giants will win flag

 

[DERO]

Menzie is on his way to 42 goals a year.

 

[Blind Turn]

Menzie is on his way to 42 goals a year.

According to some on here, his one good game negates all the fumbly, inefficient, wasteful, and ineffective games. I’m on board.

 

[crackers65]

Geez I hope port can get over the dawks. Need something to shut the clown dawkthorn supporters at work down.

 

[Seb78]

No Will Day no Hawks??

 

[jannissary]

pretty ****in' embarrassing to see nick watson duck so much. it's pretty pathetic

 

[joey_jo_jo]

No Will Day no Hawks??

He was out for the 5 game losing run that started their 24 season and then missed the finals series so does seem that way a tad. Think they still have talent in backline and forward line but the midfield looks a bit 1 speed without him. Newcombe is a warrior but doesn't have days class.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I'm more excited by this than last night

 

[Blind Turn]

I’m getting a little bit over-stimulated by this Hawks capitulation so far

 

[Happyskeret]

I’m getting a little bit over-stimulated by this Hawks capitulation so far

You had me at capitulation.