Opinion Effectiveness of the Board and Executive Leadership

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dockshark said:
It all makes sense, but I have been around for long enough to remember similar periods where Freo supporters became convinced that west coast were headed for a long period at the bottom, only for them to respond, return and win another flag.

I think often football analysis focuses purely on the players and coaches and rarley intot he more difficult space of culture and spirit. West coast have drafted well, they are brininging players on quickly and they have a successful culture that demands performance.




Exactly. Their ability to rapidly turn their list over and bring new players into their culture has been proven over time. No-one can know what is going to happen, but it would be ignoring history to think they will not be able to do it again.

What happens if they do overtake us in the next 2-3 years and head back towards a flag whilst we are stuck middling it up as we have been for a really long time now? What will it take for people to demand answers from the clubs leadership?
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I will note you haven't given any precise predictions to discuss. In business terms this isn't helpful as the predictor can obfuscate meaning when in review Get precise or this discussion and your rebuttal becomes meaningless. I won't hold you to it as a gotcha moment. It is however, required for helpful discussion.

To your first bolded point: This is knee jerk. Prior to the weekend no one was confident they drafted well. In fact they are so early in the process we have no idea if they drafted well or not. Reid is not a good example of drafting well as every team in the league would have drafted him. He was the LeBron or Wemby of his draft year. What are the ceilings of Hewett? Ginby? Witherton? And many others that didn't look all that hot before one game on the weekend.

The fact some are reacting to their win over us with so much hype would suggest to you that our drafting has been top shelf as we must be rated very highly.

Also, that culture that demands performance has seen the CEO be given the boot and them having some of the worst seasons in football history. It is only a fortnight ago that there was talk of priority picks. You know little about culture if you think that two wins is indicative of a strong culture.

Second bolded point:

Do you predict this? And what will happen? We will be in a similar age range to them and were younger on the weekend. This is a polite way of saying your sentence is meaningless fear mongering. What happens when their top liners retire and we win the first of four flags in a decade? What happens in that scenario? Well?
 

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Bragging by Weagles fans at work and in the community has been embarrassing - absolutely they should be celebrating and we are the cross-town rivals, but there's a level of pomp and arrogance that only Wet Toasters are capable of.

The amount of West Coast shirts around yesterday is embarassing for the sheer fact that I've seen bugger all of that the past two years. I've always seen a healthy dose of Purple in the community even across the dreadful 2016-2018 era.
 
poshman said:
I will note you haven't given any precise predictions to discuss. In business terms this isn't helpful as the predictor can obfuscate meaning when in review Get precise or this discussion and your rebuttal becomes meaningless. I won't hold you to it as a gotcha moment. It is however, required for helpful discussion.

To your first bolded point: This is knee jerk. Prior to the weekend no one was confident they drafted well. In fact they are so early in the process we have no idea if they drafted well or not. Reid is not a good example of drafting well as every team in the league would have drafted him. He was the LeBron or Wemby of his draft year. What are the ceilings of Hewett? Ginby? Witherton? And many others that didn't look all that hot before one game on the weekend.

The fact some are reacting to their win over us with so much hype would suggest to you that our drafting has been top shelf as we must be rated very highly.

Also, that culture that demands performance has seen the CEO be given the boot and them having some of the worst seasons in football history. It is only a fortnight ago that there was talk of priority picks. You know little about culture if you think that two wins is indicative of a strong culture.

Second bolded point:

Do you predict this? And what will happen? We will be in a similar age range to them and were younger on the weekend. This is a polite way of saying your sentence is meaningless fear mongering. What happens when their top liners retire and we win the first of four flags in a decade? What happens in that scenario? Well?
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Ok but I'm not really sure how specific predictions assist. I think there is a real risk where we are sitting at the moment that West Coast (and some other sides) will overtake us, and compete for a flag before we do whilst we continue to be a middling side. I'm simply articulating that some of that risk is associated to the culture of the environment. I would expect West Coast to be competing again within 3-4 years based off their history. I hope I'm wrong and we will turn this around to a serious forward/upward trajectory (hell I hope I'm wrong about this season and it's not too late after all) but I fear I'm not.

It's not polite to describe someones contribution as knee jerk, meaningless, knowing little, and fear mongering no matter how you try to describe it. I was simply posing a question based off what I see as a legitimate risk based off history. You can be as rude and personal as you like, that's on you.
 
dockshark said:
Ok but I'm not really sure how specific predictions assist. I think there is a real risk where we are sitting at the moment that West Coast (and some other sides) will overtake us, and compete for a flag before we do whilst we continue to be a middling side. I'm simply articulating that some of that risk is associated to the culture of the environment. I would expect West Coast to be competing again within 3-4 years based off their history. I hope I'm wrong and we will turn this around to a serious forward/upward trajectory (hell I hope I'm wrong about this season and it's not too late after all) but I fear I'm not.

It's not polite to describe someones contribution as knee jerk, meaningless, knowing little, and fear mongering no matter how you try to describe it. I was simply posing a question based off what I see as a legitimate risk based off history. You can be as rude and personal as you like, that's on you.
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It isn't personal to say a post is fear mongering or to say that a point is redundant. I interacted with your points, did not call you those things. So don't pretend now that it was a personal attack. That is the resort of the underprepared, and you are saying your post wasn't reactionary, so you wouldn't be underprepared.

Making a fearful claim without placing dates or something we can measure with your claims is useless. It is was TV pundits do with politics, pundits do with the market 'the market will crash the market will crash'. When? Well who knows. Oh so this is what? A vague nothing opinion dressed up as something insightful?

You think there is a real risk of them overtaking and competing for a flag before us. Well that being a chance is obvious, as it is a risk with every team in the competition. What would be interesting is if you tell me what percentage change you give that of happening. I would say 5%, which means it is almost meaningless. See how that wasn't you that is meaningless, rather it is the prediction?

Try and interact without accusations of rudeness or personal attack as it was you who attacked the individual. Let's get back to meaningful discussion.
 
dockshark said:
This thread is a simple appeal to the club members amongst us.

The anger has not dissipated across the last 24 hours for many of us, and now we have to face work tomorrow! I have silently paid my membership for a very long time, but in my view the time has come for club members to unite, and take a stand. We must let the club know that we will not accept the type of mediocrity thrown up last night. Forget that it was West Coast…consider that we got flogged all over the ground (on our home ground) by last years wooden spooners, who have been subject legitimate discussion about a priority pick.

Something is fundamentally broken at this club, if we all sit back and take it as members we are simply part of the problem. Where is our clubs leadership? Where is the President? Where is the EGM of Football? Why are we left with a bumbling press conference from the coach, and platitudes about sticking together from our ‘captain’? We must demand better. Whilst the club proudly boasts about 55k+ members they throw up a performance like that?

Please take some action. Start by emailing the club with your dissatisfaction. For those of you with connections to board members contact them directly.

Is anyone familiar with the club and/or WAFC constitution? Is it possible to raise a coup on the current board in the same way it’s possible for real clubs like Richmond and Collingwood?

If your response to this is to call me irrational then have at it. If you are satisfied with last nights performance then so be it. I want accountability, I want a clear sign from the club that they are listening and understand that there’s a serious problem here that platitudes about ‘sticking together’ aren’t enough. That game was a disgrace, and heads should roll.
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Your cry is free
 
poshman said:
It isn't personal to say a post is fear mongering or to say that a point is redundant. I interacted with your points, did not call you those things. So don't pretend now that it was a personal attack. That is the resort of the underprepared, and you are saying your post wasn't reactionary, so you wouldn't be underprepared.

Making a fearful claim without placing dates or something we can measure with your claims is useless. It is was TV pundits do with politics, pundits do with the market 'the market will crash the market will crash'. When? Well who knows. Oh so this is what? A vague nothing opinion dressed up as something insightful?

You think there is a real risk of them overtaking and competing for a flag before us. Well that being a chance is obvious, as it is a risk with every team in the competition. What would be interesting is if you tell me what percentage change you give that of happening. I would say 5%, which means it is almost meaningless. See how that wasn't you that is meaningless, rather it is the prediction?

Try and interact without accusations of rudeness or personal attack as it was you who attacked the individual. Let's get back to meaningful discussion.
Click to expand...
Ok...I'm not really that interested in some kind of odd dissection of words with you or an analysis of my level of preparedness. You are demanding a specific prediction associated to observations and I'm not sure how they really assist anything here, but nonetheless based of history I would say the percentage chance of West Coast overtaking us is more like 50%. They have historically been very successful at building winning teams and executing winning game plans. We have historically not been successful at that, and to draw it back to my point I am maintaining the view that this is culture and environment related.

I shared my opinion on their drafting based of my personal views from extensive watching of state U18's comps over the last few years as I have had close family members (including one of my sons) playing in them. You incorrectly assumed that this was based off one game. Not every statement made needs to be qualified in my view, particularly when it is merely opinion but it's also good to not make assumptions.

I don't know what you are trying to say with your last point, I haven't attacked any individuals, only the collective competence of the leadership of the club.
 
It's because of people like you that the people who work for the club are wading through a swamp of vitriol this morning. Realise that the people in the membership department did not play the game on Saturday and are not a good target for your catharcism.

Stop being a fk wit. Every club has great days and bad days. This time our opponent's great day coincided with out bad day. That's life.
 

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mattis117 said:
It's because of people like you that the people who work for the club are wading through a swamp of vitriol this morning. Realise that the people in the membership department did not play the game on Saturday and are not a good target for your catharcism.

Stop being a fk wit. Every club has great days and bad days. This time our opponent's great day coincided with out bad day. That's life.
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Cool story. Please point to where I suggested people contact the membership department with vitriol.

I hope your day gets better.
 
I understand the heightened emotion after this result but please don't compound the stress by feeling you're any less of a supporter by pulling back from the sport.

There's a lot of corporate driven guilt thrust upon to supporters through the club's marketing 'passion' 'pride' and 'the best things in life are freo'. The only purpose of this marketing is to make you feel like an inferior fan for skipping a weekend to prioritise something else.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with detaching and coming back when the team is winning/playing better if it feels a bit too much and that applies socially, financially or mentally. There's already a significant amount of disadvantages put in front of Fremantle by the current structure of the AFL, so supporter-stress is just going to be a part of barracking for this club.

Do something else this weekend and if we win, you'll get just as much of a thrill when watching the replay.

This post isn't directed at anyone in particular but certainly applies to myself.
 
dockshark said:
Ok...I'm not really that interested in some kind of odd dissection of words with you or an analysis of my level of preparedness. You are demanding a specific prediction associated to observations and I'm not sure how they really assist anything here, but nonetheless based of history I would say the percentage chance of West Coast overtaking us is more like 50%. They have historically been very successful at building winning teams and executing winning game plans. We have historically not been successful at that, and to draw it back to my point I am maintaining the view that this is culture and environment related.

I shared my opinion on their drafting based of my personal views from extensive watching of state U18's comps over the last few years as I have had close family members (including one of my sons) playing in them. You incorrectly assumed that this was based off one game. Not every statement made needs to be qualified in my view, particularly when it is merely opinion but it's also good to not make assumptions.

I don't know what you are trying to say with your last point, I haven't attacked any individuals, only the collective competence of the leadership of the club.
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You claimed I made it personal when you were the one who made the personal statement about me.

There was no analysis of your level of preparedness needed. I said you had claimed that, and I believed it.

It is not odd when someone is claiming 'the end is coming' or add 'large emotional claim here' to ask for detail. Asking for detail is a sign of respect and wanting to interact meaningfully.

So who have they drafted outside of Reid that you think is going to be an A grader? Details would be nice.

To be clear - by overtaking us you mean, they will contend for a premiership before us? To make that clear would you agree that would mean playing in a prelim before us?

I would take that bet all day everyday.
 
This thread ended up being a lot more interesting/entertaining than I was expecting from the title.
 
Cayman Docker said:
So much wishy washy moaning of the collective on here. Geez, we just gave two potential top 4 teams a run for their money while living out of a suitcase for a fortnight, but then the team throws out a bog average game because they are probably buggered…. and it’s end of friggin days.

And next week if we smack the Dog’s it will be back to “Flag-mantle’s back baby” start the car bla bla bla.

It’s getting a bit old.

Oh, and I REALLY hate that Flag-mantle monicker, arrogant crap when we haven’t achieved sweet feck all.

Carn the Dockers!
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Flagmantle is a bit of a laugh mate. Christ knows we could all use that from time to time.
 
summerthebat said:
I understand the heightened emotion after this result but please don't compound the stress by feeling you're any less of a supporter by pulling back from the sport.

There's a lot of corporate driven guilt thrust upon to supporters through the club's marketing 'passion' 'pride' and 'the best things in life are freo'. The only purpose of this marketing is to make you feel like an inferior fan for skipping a weekend to prioritise something else.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with detaching and coming back when the team is winning/playing better if it feels a bit too much and that applies socially, financially or mentally. There's already a significant amount of disadvantages put in front of Fremantle by the current structure of the AFL, so supporter-stress is just going to be a part of barracking for this club.

Do something else this weekend and if we win, you'll get just as much of a thrill when watching the replay.

This post isn't directed at anyone in particular but certainly applies to myself.
Click to expand...
Yep, I ceased my membership around 10 years ago and rarely watch the live telecast. Just can’t be bothered with the aggravation. Took up a South Freo membership and watch plenty of neutral AFL games. Wish the boys well but I have minimised my emotional investment.
 
Madas said:
Care to share ?
Hope it was heated
I’ll probably do one this week too
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Probably! maybe !'ll think about it! Maybe not.
Well bugger me look, it is Wednesday, better do my Dream team and Super Coach. Bugger the letter.
At least it was a thought bubble.
 
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