Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

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Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[QuietB]

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

When Israel’s defence minister, Yoav Gallant, ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip with “no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed”, he said: “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”

 

[faible]

what sort of breeding ground does having all of your neighbors declaring war on a state create in your view?

A genocidal one apparently.

 

[madmug]

You really have bought into the whole bullshit victim-perpetrator thing haven't you....

You can't honestly believe that the Palestinians and the French resistance are the same thing...that is beyond a stretch.

Resistance to land theft & violent oppression is the point. An invasion & opposition by the non state inhabitants was & is the result. Israel has killed & stolen land continually & always claims victimhood.
Every day since 1948.
So what do the inhabitants do? Do like the every resistance has ever done? or do nothing & get exterminated?

 

[faible]

As usual, unable to formulate a legitimate response.

It's just so obvious what you're doing, and that you've now been doing it so long, that people simply don't bother engaging with it when you do it, so we make fun of you.

 

[QuietB]

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

“Hamas became ISIS and the citizens of Gaza are celebrating instead of being horrified. Human animals are dealt with accordingly. Israel has imposed a total blockade on Gaza, no electricity, no water, just damage. You wanted hell, you will get hell.” Israeli Army Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT)

 

[Zidane98]

It's just so obvious what you're doing, and that you've now been doing it so long, that people simply don't bother engaging with it when you do it, so we make fun of you.

And again, you are unable to formulate anything resembling a legitimate response. No wonder you have so little credibility.

 

[Zidane98]

A genocidal one apparently.

For once you make sense and agree Hamas is genocidal.

 

[madmug]

Again, denail is your trump card

The fact it started in 1948 with Israel dispossessing 750,000 Palestinians, BEFORE the PLO, HAMAS or any other such group existed!!!!!
So why do you think these groups were formed?
Maybe like every other resistance group on the planet, in history? To defend a people, their land & their legitimate aspirations for justice?

 

[madmug]

For once you make sense and agree Hamas is genocidal.

A 2 state solution is not genocidal.
The current Apartheid state is certainly behaving in a genocidal way.
The Zionist leaderships own words & actions condemn them.

 

[faible]

And again, you are unable to formulate anything resembling a legitimate response. No wonder you have so little credibility.

I get the feeling you've gone so hard on your support of what Israel has done in Gaza that you're now having to rely on creating a scenario in your mind where it's not you that's wrong, it's everyone else.

 

[Saint]

I'm not sure what your argument here is - you must be fully aware by now that I want settlers charged in international courts for crimes against humanity. Removed by force if necessary.

My argument is that if the Israeli Government and IDF were actually concerned about terrorism, they would stop it when they see it. And the IDF sees it all the time in the West bank and supports it.

It's clear that the goal of Israel is not to stop terrorism. It's the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the Oct 7th attacks were a convenient cover for the complete destruction of Gaza. It's ethnic superiority. They're claiming to be chosen people, just like the Nazis and won't stop unless somebody stops them, just like the Nazis.

Israel and the IDF are not capable or willing to stop terrorism. Claiming their only goal is the destruction of Hamas just because they're terrorists is wrong.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Ok, so does this quote from the Israeli President - who I assume is senior enough for you - satisfy your definition of intent?

Israeli President Isaac Herzog said a few weeks earlier, on December 5, that Israel’s attack on Gaza is “a war that is intended, really, truly, to save western civilisation… [from] an empire of evil”.

Its likely he was referring to Hamas

 

[Saint]

Also, Israel has museums for their own pre-1948 terrorists. Even naming one after the guy who planned the King David Hotel bombing. It's still named that today, if you're wondering how much they support terrorism. The answer is: lots.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Fair dinkum, that's the bit that you're fact checking? Does it change things if it's 20,000? 10,000? 1,000?

Yeah you are right...im gonna just make number up too....

Hamas killed 250,000 innocent Israeli children on October 7th.

Who give a heck about being accurate?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

When Israel’s defence minister, Yoav Gallant, ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip with “no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed”, he said: “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”

Partially....but hamas are the ''human animals' being referred to.

 

[faible]

Its likely he was referring to Hamas

Strange, you distinguish between Palestinians and Hamas now in defence of Israel not committing a genocide, but are happy to label all Palestinians as responsible when justifying the actions of Israel.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Resistance to land theft & violent oppression is the point. An invasion & opposition by the non state inhabitants was & is the result. Israel has killed & stolen land continually & always claims victimhood.
Every day since 1948.
So what do the inhabitants do? Do like the every resistance has ever done? or do nothing & get exterminated?

So tell me how the PLO's behavior in Jordan was a "resistance"?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Yeah you are right...im gonna just make number up too....

Hamas killed 250,000 innocent Israeli children on October 7th.

Who give a Heck about being accurate?

it's in the ballpark... Given that the UN are quoted as saying there are over 12,000 that have been formally identified... With another 10,000 unidentified.

UN denies Gaza death toll of women and children has been revised down

Spokesperson says confusion results from Gaza health ministry’s new way of classifying those not yet fully identified

www.theguardian.com

 

[Carn The Berries]

Partially....but hamas are the ''human animals' being referred to.

So I guess they were only referring to denying the "human animals" basic human rights like food and water then??

Honestly, are you actually reading this stuff before you hit post? The Gaza strip doesn't just have Hamas in it...

 

[faible]

Honestly, are you actually reading this stuff before you hit post? The Gaza strip doesn't just have Hamas in it...

He's referred to the Palestinians on multiple occasions when talking about terrorist actions by various groups.

 

[QuietB]

Partially....but hamas are the ''human animals' being referred to.

Pretty sure this genocidal maniac referred to Gaza - but maybe I am reading it wrong

Deputy Knesset speaker Nissim Vaturi from the ruling Likud party wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter, that Israelis had one common goal, “erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.”

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Which part of modern day Israel do you believe is occupied?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Pretty sure this genocidal maniac referred to Gaza - but maybe I am reading it wrong

Deputy Knesset speaker Nissim Vaturi from the ruling Likud party wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter, that Israelis had one common goal, “erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.”

Without question the most compelling quote.

It's a fairly inept genocide if it is one. 30,000 deaths made up of both military and civilian casualties, out of 2 million Palestinians.

Where's the proportional outcry for the 6 million dead in the Congo? Oh thats right...the left haven't developed a stomach for that as yet.

 

[faible]

Without question the most compelling quote.

It's a fairly inept genocide if it is one. 30,000 deaths made up of both military and civilian casualties, out of 2 million Palestinians.

Where's the proportional outcry for the 6 million dead in the Congo? Oh thats right...the left haven't developed a stomach for that as yet.

It can't be genocide because they're bad at it?

 

[Saint]

That's a whole lot of waffle and no response to the actual question posed. Why is Israel not murdering the nearly 2 million Palestinian citizens of Israel en masse if genocide of Palestinian people is the ultimate goal of the state of Israel?

Because Genocide is no simply described as the "murder of civilians". Making a territory unlivable is also genocide.

Despite you trying to twist the question into as narrow a definition as possible, the actual definition is what matters.

I describe what Israel are doing as Ethnic Cleansing. I think they want Gaza and the West Bank to be Jewish-only or Jewish majority. And they don't care if Palestinians live or die. They're doing it by making the territory unlivable and that's considered Genocide.

It's not surprising that you consider the actual Genocide Convention "a whole lot of waffle". It's what Hitler and Netanyahu and Sinwar would say about it too.