Division 2 thread 2024

[nick2397]

I'm not sure its at the crossroads but agree it feels like in the majority of divisions you can already rule out a larger than normal number of teams that cant play finals, even with the top 5 in most divisions now.

I don't think its ever been this bad in the Knox area. Boronia and Rowville are flying but every other team has either recently got relegated multiple times, is noncompetitive, or in a current relegation battle. The only other team that has won a flag in recent times in the area was Fairpark in 2019.

Wantirna Sth - Bottom of the ladder
FTG - Bottom of the ladder
The Basin - Bottom of the ladder
Fairpark - In a relegation battle
UFTG - Multiple relegations and still in a relegation battle this year
Knox - Multiple relegations
Scoresby - Multiple relegations
Bayswater - Hasn't played finals in years. Currently 3-2 but wont get anywhere near the top teams.

A big factor in Knox clubs doing poorly is their local council. Not much money is set aside by the Knox Council (who I'm pretty sure are as far left wing as Yarra Council) towards improving sporting facilities, as a result many of them are run down, along with a lot of the ground surfaces being ordinary. This contributes to players electing to look for a club in other council areas such as Maroondah or Whitehorse.

I was at The Basin a couple of weeks ago when Croydon played there and the ground and clubhouse look like nothing has been done with it for 40 years, with the exception of only a minor adjustment here or there. As we all know, Upper FTG has had their issues with council as well the past few years and would have being frustrated with been given the run around.

 

[eflreceiver]

You are right Nic, Councils are definitely another issue.

 

[The Kaiser Chief]

You are right Nic, Councils are definitely another issue.

rubbish - I wouldn't place the council in the top 10 and it hasn't stopped Rowville, South Belgrave and Boronia having brilliant seasons in 2023. Demographics are always going to play a significant part as well

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm not sure its at the crossroads but agree it feels like in the majority of divisions you can already rule out a larger than normal number of teams that cant play finals, even with the top 5 in most divisions now.

I don't think its ever been this bad in the Knox area. Boronia and Rowville are flying but every other team has either recently got relegated multiple times, is noncompetitive, or in a current relegation battle. The only other team that has won a flag in recent times in the area was Fairpark in 2019.

Wantirna Sth - Bottom of the ladder
FTG - Bottom of the ladder
The Basin - Bottom of the ladder
Fairpark - In a relegation battle
UFTG - Multiple relegations and still in a relegation battle this year
Knox - Multiple relegations
Scoresby - Multiple relegations
Bayswater - Hasn't played finals in years. Currently 3-2 but wont get anywhere near the top teams.

Red-hot competition with a lot of clubs close to each other.

Rowville really have a large area to themselves and have had a once-in-a-generation demographic surge, and they have converted that all the way to the top of Premier Div.

That area is interesting. Lysterfield is a big battleground right in the middle. They were actually set up as some sort of offshoot of Knox, who somehow fumbled the bag and have collapsed all the way down to D3. Then once upon a time all the Lysterfield kids went to Rowville. Then South Belgrave elbowed their way in and started taking them all.

Lately Scoresby have "claimed" Rowville Knights juniors and I see today they've announced that they're.. working in partnership with??? - Lysterfield to launch their own women's team next year. Though it'll be called Lysterfield Wolves so not sure exactly what Scoresby are going to do with it all. I guess it spells the end of SBL Wolves.

 

[eflreceiver]

rubbish - I wouldn't place the council in the top 10 and it hasn't stopped Rowville, South Belgrave and Boronia having brilliant seasons in 2023. Demographics are always going to play a significant part as well

You are trying to sell your club to a prospective player, you have tents and another club has actual rooms. It does have an impact but yes there are more issues in front of Councils.

 

[nick2397]

rubbish - I wouldn't place the council in the top 10 and it hasn't stopped Rowville, South Belgrave and Boronia having brilliant seasons in 2023. Demographics are always going to play a significant part as well

Rowville - Paul Mynott and his crew from Bayswater turned that club around 180 degrees, from a pathetic 4th division club that trained at the Stamford to a professionally run club in the highest division.

South Belgrave - are in Yarra Ranges area, however are a well run club with committee members that have plenty of personal connections to get star footballers to their club to play and/or coach, much like South Croydon over the past decade. The old saying is true here - it's not what you know but who you know.

Boronia - have hosted finals for many years now, along with having permanent fencing around the ground. Of course as a result, they have plenty of money and have the players to do well in Div 1 next season and may even put up a strong case to go to the highest division within the next 4-5 seasons.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Rowville - Paul Mynott and his crew from Bayswater turned that club around 180 degrees, from a pathetic 4th division club that trained at the Stamford to a professionally run club in the highest division.

Suth Belgrave - are in Yarra Ranges area, however are a well run club with committee members that have plenty of personal connections to get star footballers to their club to play and/or coach, much like South Croydon over the past decade. The old saying is true here - it's not what you know but who you know.

Boronia - have hosted finals for many years now, along with having permanent fencing around the ground. Of course as a result, they have plenty of money and have the players to do well in Div 1 next season and may even put up a strong case to go to the highest division within the next 4-5 seasons.

Very accurate this and it illustrates how different a place the league now is to what it used to be when I was more closely involved. The level of competitiveness is enormous. There used to be 2-3 behemoth clubs that nobody got near, and the rest were really genuine local clubs that would rise and fall as they got good people involved or came into some money.

It feels to me that there is way more clubs now that have a good level of money and people, so it's not enough to take you to the top like it used to be. It might take you from 4th Div to say 2nd Div, but there you hit a wall because there are so many clubs that seem to be in such good shape.

Appropriate this is in the D2 thread because I actually first had this thought earlier this year when the East Burwood coach was interviewed and he spoke about the club (i'm paraphrasing) being a traditional big club in the top division and that's where they intend to get back to. I actually do admire the ambition but seriously, making statements like that, I hope you know what you're in for. It used to be just a case of getting your house in order, it's not now. Looking down the ladders now, go back 20 years and:

There's no Balwyn

There's no Noble Park

Rowville are D4 shitkickers

Blackburn were lurking around D2 / just into D1

South Croydon were D4 shitkickers

Doncaster East were low division shitkickers

There was no Berwick

Norwood were D4 shitkickers

There was no Park Orchards

There was no Beaconsfield

Montrose were very average

There was no South Belgrave

Mooroolbark were lower division rubbish

North Ringwood were lower division rubbish

Boronia were lower division rubbish

Waverley Blues were D4 shitkickers

Templestowe were lower division

Heathmont were D4 shitkickers

It's like 20 clubs who range from being absolutely elite to quite strong, and they just weren't there 20 years ago. I feel like good teams in D2 now would probably have been quite competitive in the top division 20 years ago (not winning flags over those ridiculous EB and Vermont teams, but otherwise competitive in the division).

And of course you have the situation where three higher grades of football (AFL Reserves, VFL and VFL Reserves) have been compressed into just one, with all the players having filtered down to local footy. So there's a lot more quality locally.

You can be ambitious as a club but it's a very very very long way to the top from where I'm sitting. And with the constant fiddling with divisions, premiers don't always go up every year. That can be a generational chance to be promoted as it would seem very, very hard to win one and there is a lot of luck involved.

For example - Mitcham are in a great spot but flags are bloody difficult to win. They didn't get to go up to Premier and I could see them not possibly not getting another good chance, despite them being a very good side. It just may not happen again. They also won that flag over Ringwood by literally half an inch, they went one way and Ringwood the other. It's such fine margins.

 

[nick2397]

Great summary there. Another thing to note, I've been surprised at the standard of the football in Division 2 (effectively third division) this season, as to how it's still relatively good and it's not a big difference to the division above. It is probably similar to the true 2nd division from 20 odd years ago.

It also helps that the VFL no longer have the reserve grade, therefore better players have filtered into local leagues and EFNL have greatly benefited from this from this. Overall our football and netball league is going along nicely, the only thing the league needs to fix is getting an extra club in to eliminate the Div 4 bye. They should ask Endeavour Hills to come across from Southern, as Narre Warren is already going over there next season, therefore there'll be no byes in either league.

 

[The Kaiser Chief]

Very accurate this and it illustrates how different a place the league now is to what it used to be when I was more closely involved. The level of competitiveness is enormous. There used to be 2-3 behemoth clubs that nobody got near, and the rest were really genuine local clubs that would rise and fall as they got good people involved or came into some money.

It feels to me that there is way more clubs now that have a good level of money and people, so it's not enough to take you to the top like it used to be. It might take you from 4th Div to say 2nd Div, but there you hit a wall because there are so many clubs that seem to be in such good shape.

Appropriate this is in the D2 thread because I actually first had this thought earlier this year when the East Burwood coach was interviewed and he spoke about the club (i'm paraphrasing) being a traditional big club in the top division and that's where they intend to get back to. I actually do admire the ambition but seriously, making statements like that, I hope you know what you're in for. It used to be just a case of getting your house in order, it's not now. Looking down the ladders now, go back 20 years and:

There's no Balwyn

There's no Noble Park

Rowville are D4 shitkickers

Blackburn were lurking around D2 / just into D1

South Croydon were D4 shitkickers

Doncaster East were low division shitkickers

There was no Berwick

Norwood were D4 shitkickers

There was no Park Orchards

There was no Beaconsfield

Montrose were very average

There was no South Belgrave

Mooroolbark were lower division rubbish

North Ringwood were lower division rubbish

Boronia were lower division rubbish

Waverley Blues were D4 shitkickers

Templestowe were lower division

Heathmont were D4 shitkickers

It's like 20 clubs who range from being absolutely elite to quite strong, and they just weren't there 20 years ago. I feel like good teams in D2 now would probably have been quite competitive in the top division 20 years ago (not winning flags over those ridiculous EB and Vermont teams, but otherwise competitive in the division).

And of course you have the situation where three higher grades of football (AFL Reserves, VFL and VFL Reserves) have been compressed into just one, with all the players having filtered down to local footy. So there's a lot more quality locally.

You can be ambitious as a club but it's a very very very long way to the top from where I'm sitting. And with the constant fiddling with divisions, premiers don't always go up every year. That can be a generational chance to be promoted as it would seem very, very hard to win one and there is a lot of luck involved.

For example - Mitcham are in a great spot but flags are bloody difficult to win. They didn't get to go up to Premier and I could see them not possibly not getting another good chance, despite them being a very good side. It just may not happen again. They also won that flag over Ringwood by literally half an inch, they went one way and Ringwood the other. It's such fine margins.

the Bunk knows his stuff

 

[ManInWhite]

Interesting to see how some posters feel that EFNL has gone off the track slightly. I've come back to Eastern after a number of years in Outer East. If you want to see cooked, check out the Yarra Valley. League making decisions on the fly, clubs in disarray, teams flying in from SEFNL causing catastrophic turmoil and then departing just as quickly after causing the carnage, umpiring in tatters with large defections - they're proud of their recruiting despite most of the recruits are in their 70's and 15 year olds are doing prem seniors - not because they're good enough, it's all they have.

I don't wish them ill will as I have many happy memories there but it's just so sad to such a good thing go to rack and ruin. Coming back to Eastern is like walking out of the rain and back into the sun. Great standard of footy, well run clubs, great administration and top level umpire coaching. Might have the odd hiccup every now and then but on the whole, such a better place than when I was here last.

 

[Brown Bottle]

great post MiW. there's a lot of criticism of the EFNL on this board, but I find the league to be professionally run on the whole vs my experience of others. a lot of things that attract criticism are the result of proposals that clubs have voted for, so while we might argue thet they're bad decisions, in hindsight, decision making is only as good as the club representatives who raise their hands

 

[eflreceiver]

" (i'm paraphrasing) being a traditional big club in the top division and that's where they intend to get back to." I don't remember him saying that. I do remember that he said he's a winner and he's here to win the flag. I don't mind that I'd rather that than "I am here to rebuild". Kick EB all you like, all I can say is we are doing fine off the field, and on the field we will see how that transpires at year's end. I will add no one at EB has Premier Division on their radar simply due to the extra finances required. I think Div 2 is where EB can sit and be financially viable and competitive while they can build up to maybe have a crack at the Flag in a few years. As for other clubs, the ones with a stable income stream will stay strong, and the ones without will go up and down depending on who's involved with the club, and that goes for EB as well.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

" (i'm paraphrasing) being a traditional big club in the top division and that's where they intend to get back to." I don't remember him saying that. I do remember that he said he's a winner and he's here to win the flag. I don't mind that I'd rather that than "I am here to rebuild". Kick EB all you like, all I can say is we are doing fine off the field, and on the field we will see how that transpires at year's end. I will add no one at EB has Premier Division on their radar simply due to the extra finances required. I think Div 2 is where EB can sit and be financially viable and competitive while they can build up to maybe have a crack at the Flag in a few years. As for other clubs, the ones with a stable income stream will stay strong, and the ones without will go up and down depending on who's involved with the club, and that goes for EB as well.

Maybe I read into it, just the impression I got from somebody who was coming back from "the glory days"

“Part of my coming back and the history that I was involved with was trying to get the point across to these blokes that this club’s had a big reputation in the past.

“It’s gone backwards in the past 15 years and footy’s all about gaining respect and that’s all I stand for in my sporting background.”

“All these blokes need to realise it’s no longer about coming somewhere in the middle of the road in third division, it’s get up to second as quick as you can and then forge forward from there to go to the highest level,” he said.

I don't think the big reputation from the past and needing to move up the divisions would be relevant at all for the current group. They are playing very, very tough and competitive competition and winning flags below the top division is a hell of a lot more difficult than it used to be.

I would say 20 years ago that any club that got it's house reasonably in order had a good hope of moving up the divisions. These days I'd say there's probably 25-30 clubs with their houses in order, it's just a baseline now.

I'm not trying to kick EB, I haven't had much to do with them in the past other than the odd visit and it's always been a good place to go.

 

[eflreceiver]

That's fair, it's all about perceptions. Give me $300k a year and I will get EB into Premier. It will never happen well unless I win 60 mil this week. I remember the glory days and I remember Vermont buying into the Wantirna Club and EB sitting back with all their benefactors. The rest is history.

EB going down to the bottom woke many people who were sitting on the sidelines and sniping. I remember going into the rooms and there would barely be 5 people in there. This year even after losses the rooms have been packed. It's community football, if people love coming to your club you win no matter what Division. People forget it's a community thing, we can't all be Premiers but we can be winners.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

That's fair, it's all about perceptions. Give me $300k a year and I will get EB into Premier. It will never happen well unless I win 60 mil this week. I remember the glory days and I remember Vermont buying into the Wantirna Club and EB sitting back with all their benefactors. The rest is history.

EB going down to the bottom woke many people who were sitting on the sidelines and sniping. I remember going into the rooms and there would barely be 5 people in there. This year even after losses the rooms have been packed. It's community football, if people love coming to your club you win no matter what Division. People forget it's a community thing, we can't all be Premiers but we can be winners.

Yep I think most people would take a packed-out club every week over being more successful but not having any support or community presence and nobody around the club.

At the end of the day you want a place that gives people somewhere to play and gives everybody else somewhere to gather and enjoy themselves on a Saturday.

 

[localfootyguru]

That's fair, it's all about perceptions. Give me $300k a year and I will get EB into Premier. It will never happen well unless I win 60 mil this week. I remember the glory days and I remember Vermont buying into the Wantirna Club and EB sitting back with all their benefactors. The rest is history.

EB going down to the bottom woke many people who were sitting on the sidelines and sniping. I remember going into the rooms and there would barely be 5 people in there. This year even after losses the rooms have been packed. It's community football, if people love coming to your club you win no matter what Division. People forget it's a community thing, we can't all be Premiers but we can be winners.

I agree Reciever with your thoughts. Best to have community support and a club that is viable and will be around for the future rather than one that is living from 'year to year'. East Burwood under previous hierarchies was trying to keep up with the Joneses and spend well beyond their means to remain competitive and look what happened.

I also have noticed the change in the club with different people involved. The sense of arrogance and entitlement that previously existed is gone and its great to see your club members in the social rooms when playing away post game. That rarely happened when you were in higher divisions. I also remember the days when your club was in the top division and successful and there was nobody in your home social rooms post game (win or lose). The players were only there to play, get paid and gave nothing back to the club.

It is pleasing to see how your club has changed and now invested in being a community based club playing at an appropriate level of football which is probably more competitive and enjoyable than competing at the higher levels where winning a premiership is nearly impossible.

 

[Glorfindel]

At the end of the day you want a place that gives people somewhere to play and gives everybody else somewhere to gather and enjoy themselves on a Saturday.

As someone who works in, and has an interest in, public health this aspect is far more important than how many flags there are up on the wall.
Would much rather a club that has won 5 community based awards and 0 flags in 20 years than the reverse.
And controversial as it may seem on a football forum, I couldn’t give a rats arse if peoples social and physical outlets are the footy club, lawn bowls, archery, crossfit or the tennis.