Current Poker Trends

[Happy Daze]

So this thread is about trends you are seeing in poker, ie stuff like raise sizes pre (that have obviously changed over the years), 4 bet ranges you are seeing if you ever venture that far etc.

One trend I've seen a lot lately is the use of hold em resources calculator among the high-stakes tourney/SNG players, to the extent that I'm really thinking about getting Poker Tracker 4 to replace Hold Em Manager for tourney/sng (not that I play them much). I've seen it in a lot of CR vids and also on the well-known poker forums. In fact there has been a very big increase in the use of online tools, especially for tourney/sng players, to analyse different situations in the last few years.

I have a license for Hold Em Resources Calc, but it works poorly with HEM.....its a nash-range calculator - some of the results it throws up are really very surprising. I've seen people like Collin Moshman, Jon "Apestyles" Van Fleet etc use it very heavily in their analysis - obviously they use it daily to improve their play.

 

[Happy Daze]

One of the bigger trends in recent years, in all forms of NLH, is that players are now much more prone to defend their blinds - either by flatting or 3 betting (players are much more likely to 3 bet from the SB because if they flat they are open to a squeeze from the BB, who closes the action).

Now, this is obviously fine IF you are capable of playing out of position, and in a lot of ways it depends on who you are OOP too (ie if its a bad player, fine) but for me its gotten a big ridiculous - at the ME I saw one professional literally defend his entire range from the BB vs other professional players over a 10 hour period. I can't really see how this can be a winning formula long term. Its also obviously dependent on the frequency a player is opening (say from the CO of button) and therefore the range of cards they are opening, and what hand the SB and BB have relative to that range.

I think in part this trend has come from PLO, where defending the blinds is almost mandatory, but in PLO the differences in starting hands in terms of equity are much closer together, so for example an AAxx hand in PLO is a 65% favourite vs a 30% range, but in NLH AA has a 86% chance vs a 30% range - hence in PLO defending your blinds vs a raise makes much more sense because whatever your holding/s (except for the most mediocre of starting hands like say 9222) you have a much greater chance of winning the hand, even taking into consideration you being OOP, than in NLH.

For those of us who play NLH, recognising a player who is defending too much out of the blinds (either by 3 betting or flatting pre) can be very profitable because with position you can put them in a lot of very bad spots, either preflop or postflop. Also, when we are in the blinds its fairly important to have a range of hands we can defend vs a wide opener, or even a range of hands that can possibly do well versus a tight opener who is prone to get it in with just, say, a naked overpair on every flop. A good strategy versus a wide opener is to 3 bet the top and bottom of your range, and to flat the middle part of your range, within reason. Sometimes, obviously, you want to flat very strong hands to mix it up a little versus regular players, but in tournament play this is much less of a concern because mostly you aren't playing against regs if you play MTTs.

 

[baz_machine]

Happy Daze

You saying you didn't like them defending with J4o??

I agree that there has to be some limit on what range you can defend with. I'd probably defend from the big blind a button raise with the following;

Ax
Kxs, KQ, KJ, K10, K9, K8
Qxs
Any suited \ unsuited connectors
Any suited one gappers
Any suited double gappers

In the small blind, I'd more likely to go with

Axs, AK, AQ, AJ, A10, A9, A8
Kxs, KQ, KJ, K10
Qxs
Any suited connectors
Any suited one gappers
Any suited double gappers

Still a wide range but I don't see the value in trying to defend with 93o.

 

[Happy Daze]

^ ^ those are good ranges to defend/3 bet out of the blinds. Yeah basically I'm saying like flatting 92 o from the BB to a button raise is obviously way too wide of a defend - sometimes you can put a hand like that in your 3 bet range but most times its just better to fold that hand.

This also points to the fact these ranges should not be static - obviously you can 3 bet some trash out of the blinds if the button is opening 100% and has a high 3-bet fold stat, and, for example, if someone is raising 3 x pre for example means naturally you will have a tighter defending range if, say, you are at 40 bb and under in a tournament, but overall yeah having a set range of hands in mind from the blinds is a really good idea.

 

[baz_machine]

^^ absolutely dependent on stack sizes and bet % but then again every hand is

one thing i did notice in the Main Event was almost 100% opening if folded to the button. i can only remember 1 walk before they got down to 4.

 

[MrKK]

I saw a new "strategy" for the first time last night - the UTG blind raise in a tournament. Can't really see it being successful enough to become a trend, especially if (like last night's villain) you're doing with <15BBs and folding to the inevitable button shove...

I don't get the logic of grinding a live tourney with all its associated irritants for 3 hours and then pull stupid s**t like blind raising - he wasn't even

 

[Happy Daze]

UTG raises definitely a trend in tournament poker, the rationale being other players should think your range should be very tight from there, and you get in first etc, and you get to steal blinds/antes. I also see it in cash games, but its much less effective when most other players are at least 100 BB deep and can 3 bet you with position into submission, or just flat IP and pound you on successive streets.

Its one of those trends that was at the higher stakes in tournaments 3 years or so ago, and is now prevalent at lower stakes, given all the training vids etc. Monkey see, monkey do.

 

[JuddsABlue]

95%(not sure of the real number, but this is my way of saying a lot) of general poker knowledge and skill is through mimicking other players, not actually working things out for ourselves

There are a few that theorize the game and discover things to exploit or increase their edge, but for the most of us, we are all monkeying seeing and doing

 

[Drummer_19]

UTG stealing with shorter stacks is generally much more effective when tables are 5- 7 handed in the last few tables as opposed to 9 handed since people won't really adjust as UTG 7 handed its like MP1 on a 9 handed table (or there abouts) and they'l give credit for a range of an UTG open on a 9 handed table. In saying that it's something you only really want to do when on a table of abc players since after an orbit or two good people will adjust and flat you wide in position or 3b you and abuse you. I wouldn't say it's a trend, been around for years now.

 

[Drummer_19]

95%(not sure of the real number, but this is my way of saying a lot) of general poker knowledge and skill is through mimicking other players, not actually working things out for ourselves

There are a few that theorize the game and discover things to exploit or increase their edge, but for the most of us, we are all monkeying seeing and doing

Seems about right, most of the people who make the most are also the people are ridiculed the most too by people who follow and are unable or affraid to stray from the rules of "what you're supposed to do" and end up just playing the same as all the other regs which becomes breakeven or slightly winning. The struggle is def to try and innovate away from group think.

 

[MrKK]

UTG raises definitely a trend in tournament poker, the rationale being other players should think your range should be very tight from there, and you get in first etc, and you get to steal blinds/antes. I also see it in cash games, but its much less effective when most other players are at least 100 BB deep and can 3 bet you with position into submission, or just flat IP and pound you on successive streets.

Its one of those trends that was at the higher stakes in tournaments 3 years or so ago, and is now prevalent at lower stakes, given all the training vids etc. Monkey see, monkey do.

Not sure if your post was in response to mine, but maybe I didn't make it clear that this was a blind UTG raise - he raised as cards were being dealt and before looking at his hand. Definitely the first time I've seen someone do that in a tournament.

 

[baz_machine]

Not sure if your post was in response to mine, but maybe I didn't make it clear that this was a blind UTG raise - he raised as cards were being dealt and before looking at his hand. Definitely the first time I've seen someone do that in a tournament.

clearly bored

 

[Happy Daze]

^ ^ apologies, a few beers in when I replied, didn't realise 'bout the blind raise. Baz has a good summation.

 

[Goodo73]

clearly bored

Or blind (drunk)

 

[Happy Daze]

^ ^ talking of which, if you see some posts from me really late in the early morning, generally I've finished a long session and have tucked into a couple of brews. Possibly some of you could have guessed that already.

Anyway, I have an upcoming post on the non-all-in-all-in, which I've seen in a few sit-n-gos, but not in tournaments as yet. I saw it best explained by Collin Moshman in a Cardrunners vid, so will have to re-watch it first. Want to contrast the difference between it and the traditional stop and go.

It struck me as an interesting thing to do - I don't play that many tournaments but its something I'll look out for now in the ones I play. I'm not sure its something I'd use but its definiely something well worth knowing about.

Edit: if anyone has ever used the above in a tournament it would be interesting to relate your experiences. Have to admit I've only ever tried the stop and go, and previous to hearing about it just thought someone using the NAIAI was just a fish.