Board Standards and Over the Top comments

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Seeing as the genie has been let out of the bottle, it is time to let Port Board posters know that all three board moderators are concerned with the level of abuse being directed lately at various sections of the club.

As posted elsewhere, this is not about suppressing criticism or critical discussion - this is encouraged as much as possible. These are discussion boards and we want to see that, especially when it involves evidence-based discussion offering new and varied perspectives. We are not about wanting threads only of sweetness and light. But the level of abuse of late directed at players we purport to support is not acceptable.

The relentless hit-and-run sniping and ugly abuse of players with no actual critical discussion of their game is a blight to both Port supporters and moderators. Variations on 'Westhoff is a stick-insect', 'Ebert is a midget tall', 'Pearce is a front-runner', etc etc, as if these comments in and of themselves constitute some sort of meaningful discussion. And that's the kinder stuff, let alone the player X is sh*t or f**k off player Y or coach Z rubbish that has been posted. This sort of comment does nobody any justice.

I could post examples of the type of outright abusive comment referred to above, but that's just embarrassing for the posters, the players and the Board itself (even if the comments were deidentified re poster and player/board/coach). Suffice to say, some of those comments I wouldn't make about a mad dog, let alone another person, or worse still a footballer at the club I support.

Bear in mind, players may read these comments, as well as relatives, friends, acquaintances of players. What sort of message do we want to send to those people? As I've stressed critical discussion is fine, praise doesn't go astray either, and we understand the frustration and passion of footy.

But remember you are talking about people too, and I would say with some confidence that if comments like this had been made to players in the past, some would've received very short shrift. Also the internet is not the equivalent of discussion between friends at a bar or coffee shop. These comments are out there in the public arena for anyone to see.

For your own protection, you might want to consider this recent court case:

Vogue model Liskula Cohen's court win on skank gibe August 20, 2009
Article from: The Australian

link
A VOGUE cover girl has won a precedent-setting court battle to unmask an anonymous blogger who called her a skank on the internet.

In a case with potentially far-reaching repercussions, Liskula Cohen sought the identity of the blogger who maligned her on the Skanks in NYC blog, so she could sue him or her for defamation.

A Manhattan Supreme Court judge ruled that she was entitled to the information and ordered Google, which hosted the offending blog, to turn it over.
link

At the risk of being labelled a grumpy old man, I would advise you to think about what you post in the future. As I wrote, critical discussion is fine, but hit-and-run sledging is not, especially abusive stuff, and it will be dealt with harshly from now on.

The Port Board mods allow a fair degree of leeway when it comes to self-regulation on this board by Port posters, and we have been known to come down hard on outsiders who cross the line. Let's try and stay behind that line as best we can too.

I'll leave this thread open for now for comment or query, although if you're planning to ask where the line is drawn, that's up to your moral compass when making a judgement. Every case will be dealt with on individual merits.
 

Relativity

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Yes. Very tiresome. Not against good criticism but some posters go on ad nauseum as if the rest of us are too simple to get their dislikes the first 47 times.:rolleyes:
 

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Portia

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Intelligent criticisms and constructive analysis are basically worthless, when the club's board is drawing support for its decisions based on Facebook support and banners, both of which have the intellectual value of a potato.

You might well ask at which point the club decided that Facebook members were more worth listening to than club members; i certainly don't remember voting for it. But, apparently getting as big a mob together as you can is the way to affect change at the PAFC.

I personally think it is time for Port fans to work themselves into an irrational and angry state; maybe then we will lose the complacency that has brought our club to where it is today; a pathetic circlejerk of somebody else's fault.

If that means a bit more rubbish on these board, well, maybe its due. Our club is no longer the smug-know-all that can sit back and be philosophical and gentlemanly while winning 75% of games. It is apparently time to get a bit feral, and that is going to flow over into all aspects of Port support; this board will not be immune.
 

morell

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Nice Work Fordy.

The only thing I would add is that its not a case of "players may read these boards" instead I would put it down as - players DO read these boards.
 
Aug 16, 2009
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Well said Ford.
Have been reading these boards over the last year while working over here in Dubai.
Because we rarely get a Port game shown here (2 live games and a 1 hour highlights package each week) it is hard to make informed and balanced comments.
All too often I have a quick look and the level of vitriol is unbelievable.
For what it's worth, from the bits and pieces I have seen a lot more criticism needs to be leveled at the game plan and coaching rather than the players.
 
Intelligent criticisms and constructive analysis are basically worthless, when the club's board is drawing support for its decisions based on Facebook support and banners, both of which have the intellectual value of a potato.

You might well ask at which point the club decided that Facebook members were more worth listening to than club members; i certainly don't remember voting for it. But, apparently getting as big a mob together as you can is the way to affect change at the PAFC.

I personally think it is time for Port fans to work themselves into an irrational and angry state; maybe then we will lose the complacency that has brought our club to where it is today; a pathetic circlejerk of somebody else's fault.

If that means a bit more rubbish on these board, well, maybe its due. Our club is no longer the smug-know-all that can sit back and be philosophical and gentlemanly while winning 75% of games. It is apparently time to get a bit feral, and that is going to flow over into all aspects of Port support; this board will not be immune.

This.
 
Well said ford.

Totally agree.

Porthos does have a good point, using facebook as a source of support for choco instead of the members, is just about the biggest load of bs a club could push.
 

ScottA

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Ford, I read this Board all the time. Like others - I'm based overseas and so get very little on Port.

I would not get overly worried by this - carping crap is easily identified and almost always treated as such.

As others have mentioned it is very obvious that our problem is not the players - its the game plan - stuck somewhere between what worked five years ago and what is required today!

The thing that I think gets most people really ANGRY is this was obvious two years ago. Only Arrogance or Madness (defined as condemned to making the same mistake over and over) can explain it.

Lets hope that hitting this low will make it impossible for those who have stewardship of our club to ignore, white wash or apply positive spin out of this again.
 

P.A.F.C

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I don't get this whole FB thing. This is how I saw the whole thing, but I may have missed a quote from a Port official.

Port were making a decision on Choco. Some fans want him there, a lot don't. Some fans made a FB group and a banner. Port signs Choco. Disgruntled BF members establish a link. If you think the decision was made through those actions, you're pretty deluded.
 
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Cheers, Ford, like many here who are not locals, the Board is an invaluable source of info and comment on the Club, and I am appreciative of all the posters who go out of their way to post pics, reviews, previews, ins/outs, news etc. It's gotten to the stage where when I watch a game I don't decide whether it was good or not until Macca says so :D

I just ignore the obvious cr*p, but agree 100% that it should never get personal - against other members, players or staff. Lets focus our energies on our small contribution to making the PAFC great again - starting with those awesome black jumpers which should be turning up soon :) :)
 

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morell

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Porthos does have a good point, using facebook as a source of support for choco instead of the members, is just about the biggest load of bs a club could push.
Ah cmon, do we really think they used facebook for anything other than a glib "yeah, we're hip and with it" type media garb and publicity push?

There is no way they factored a facebook group into the decision making process.
 
I can't speak for everyone else, clearly the club didn't use a banner and facebook group as a factor in retaining choco, but i maintain it's the biggest load of bs a club could push
 

P.A.F.C

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Remember, this was apparently back page news from Rucci. Someone from the club was probably just asked about it in an interview.
 
Somewhere between the two extremes of TPFP lap dogs and the "He Is s**t Mate" simple and dumb abuse posts, are things like the satirical "transcripts" which go further than you could ever get away with in direct comments. Ford, the three things you list as examples re Westhoff, Ebert, Pearce are all covered in there... You CAN make Intelligent Criticism while being angry and irrational and this board would be dead without that passion. Don't know about Constructive Analysis though, I think that was best left for wednesdays this season.

The link posted basically says you can't hide behind an alias in US law. While I Am Not A Lawyer, I suspect Australian law is even *less* protective of your anonymity as a poster if defamation is concerned. IMO it also means that one day, an abuse-ee will go after a site, or a set of moderators because "you should have dealt with abusive poster XYZ sooner, before their abuse was repeated everywhere" even just as a test case.
 
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Intelligent criticisms and constructive analysis are basically worthless, when the club's board is drawing support for its decisions based on Facebook support and banners, both of which have the intellectual value of a potato.

You might well ask at which point the club decided that Facebook members were more worth listening to than club members; i certainly don't remember voting for it. But, apparently getting as big a mob together as you can is the way to affect change at the PAFC.

I personally think it is time for Port fans to work themselves into an irrational and angry state; maybe then we will lose the complacency that has brought our club to where it is today; a pathetic circlejerk of somebody else's fault.

If that means a bit more rubbish on these board, well, maybe its due. Our club is no longer the smug-know-all that can sit back and be philosophical and gentlemanly while winning 75% of games. It is apparently time to get a bit feral, and that is going to flow over into all aspects of Port support; this board will not be immune.
+1. Or to put it another way, an intelligent analysis and constructive criticism by Porthos of what's wrong with a TPFP style backslapping and holding back of 'negative' views.

I don't agree with saying X is a shithead or personal abuse, but comments like 'Westhoff is a stick-insect' is shorthand. Does the poster really need to specify everytime 'Westhoff's build prevents him from playing on the larger full backs, yet his inability to hold his feet or have a huge tank prevents him from attempting play the Riewoldt type role'.

Ditto for Ebert - unless you are new here, you know midget tall is short-hand for 'Played by Choco as the key focal point against taller opponents, he's outmarked often. His lack of crumbing skills means it doesn't have him taking advantage of what should be the flip-side of a small-tall mismatch, leaving our forward line unbalanced and the ball rebounding out with less pressure then one would like to see'.

There are times when a full discussion of why you think a player/coach may not be up to scratch, but if it's 'common knowledge' writing the whole lot out again is just filling most threads with meaningless noise IMO.
 

portly

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Should have been done long ago Ford!


I don't actually have a big problem with the "midget tall", knowing full well that it means exactly as Andre ^ has described so well. Perhaps this could be an exemplar of "the worst".

But I do have a problem with the really nasty stuff that goes on sometimes, especially when directed at "scapegoats".
 
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Just to clear up what appears to be a misconception of the 'stick insect' or 'midget tall' example - it was meant to convey a spectrum, from that sort of example -> 'spud/dud' -> 'player/coach is sh*t'.

The latter examples are not worth keeping, the first examples as 'colorful metaphor' in the context of a post would get consideration.

I think Andre's example of the shorthand those terms conveyed was hyperbolic to make a point, and if someone wants to make a point about a player, then sometimes a little more discussion is required. Is it that hard to type Westhoff's size and endurance limit his effectiveness as a key forward? And given Andre's comment that their shortcomings are 'common knowledge' - is even shorthand required?

I have to say tho, that calling someone a stick insect is hardly an indicator of their endurance, as per Andre's example. The stick insect indulges in a single copulation act that can last 80 days. I'd call that remarkable endurance. :eek:;)

I'd reiterate too that it is misleading to imply we are trying to prevent critical discussion or passion. It's quite clear in the OP that is encouraged. This board is not about a hand-holding round of singing Kumbaya around the campfire. But the mods believe you can have critical discussion and passion without abuse - that's what we want people to consider when posting.
 
There has been an increase in posts which contain vitriol directed at our players. Comments such as "Jacobs is rubbish" and "Cassisi is s**t" reflect poorly on the Port board, especially given we are developing a relationship with the club through our sponsorship efforts. Be warned that posts that contain these types of comments will likely be deleted and may lead to infractions.

It is possible to discuss players' weaknesses and constructively criticise without the vitriol.

A re-read of this thread and the Port board posting guidelines may be worthwhile if any of the above is unclear.
 
Apr 27, 2007
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I can agree with the saying someone is s**t in unacceptable, but Rubbish being considered vitriol? I hope we aren't heading towards censoring this board of criticism because we are wanting a relationship with the club.
 

b0ydman

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Intelligent criticisms and constructive analysis are basically worthless, when the club's board is drawing support for its decisions based on Facebook support and banners, both of which have the intellectual value of a potato.

You might well ask at which point the club decided that Facebook members were more worth listening to than club members; i certainly don't remember voting for it. But, apparently getting as big a mob together as you can is the way to affect change at the PAFC.

I personally think it is time for Port fans to work themselves into an irrational and angry state; maybe then we will lose the complacency that has brought our club to where it is today; a pathetic circlejerk of somebody else's fault.

If that means a bit more rubbish on these board, well, maybe its due. Our club is no longer the smug-know-all that can sit back and be philosophical and gentlemanly while winning 75% of games. It is apparently time to get a bit feral, and that is going to flow over into all aspects of Port support; this board will not be immune.

Beautiful. beautiful words

Can only add to this that these guys are earning HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars. 10, 20,000 PER GAME. Some of their performances and efforts are insipid and unworthy of wearing the jumper

WE are the ones paying to attend the game, memberships, debt bombs and so on

Fos Williams would roll in his grave. Thank you Tim Ginever for saying what needed to be remembered in all this


That said, yes, appropriate to justify insults with additional explanatory comments- apart from live rolling match day threads which are their own context.

Looks like I'll be spending most of my time in Bay 13. sometimes I get more honest assessment of our players and coaching and game strategy there
 

b0ydman

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Comments such as "Jacobs is rubbish" and "Cassisi is s**t" reflect poorly on the Port board, especially given we are developing a relationship with the club through our sponsorship efforts..

LMAO. And here was me thinking it was things_like_Jacobs actually being a rubbish imposter of an AFL standard footballer, and Cassisi making repeatedly s**t decisions and (occasional) skill execution, that reflect poorly on the board and club

Maybe I misunderstood Primus when he said we want to get respect back.

I'm sorry. I understand the tone and intent of the thread and I do agree with it and respect that. I know I should, but I don't easily accept it

i still dont accept the 1984 grand final, Michael Aish was holding the ball and Tim Evans got ripped off before the bounce

Maybe that's why the PAFC of old was successful. It was made up of people who didn't accept calling an ordinary effort "good". It didn't accept a player who refuses to add mass to his frame resulting in the same outcome time after time

It got rid of the kid who couldn't mark a ball, or kick it. it sent him back to the 2s for a season to see if he could. its fans didn't say "persist with him he looked good on youtube playing against other 16year olds"

It didn't play people based on their being in the squad and being young.

Its fans spent the weekend devastated that it lost to the Bays- AT Glenelg. it didn't console itself to back patting.

This is the AFL, AND the internet, there is nothing more over the top than that.





Be warned that posts that contain these types of comments will likely be deleted and may lead to infractions.
.

Well. It looks like I'm up for the red card. probably best for all of you. If I do get red carded (fair cop) please leave this post up to show people where the line is

Back in 1 week

The b0ydman
 
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